doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com LC Smith parts. Hi, Geo

Joe- do I take your reply to mean, that in spite of the condition of that Field (or OO) grade Smith, he felt a $100 price was a good deal if it was indeed a 20 bore, but not such a deal if it was a 16??

16 gauge guns have their "wax and wane" in popularity-- I think the "smart money" will move towards the 20-- Look at the pricing and availability of 16 gauge loads at, say, Cabela's-- small potatoes compared the shelves of 12 and 20, and not including the steel shot 12 gauge loads in 3" Mag, and even 3&1/2"--

I can see a fine 16 doublegun for quail, dove, grouse and woodcock, but to my mind, pheasant either driven (Tower shoots) or over far ranging flushing dawgs-and waterfowl- is a 12 gauge realm..

Fox you have such a way of getting so much out so little I said...

The smart money would reduce the gun to a pile of parts, and auction them off, one at a time, to people who need them.

They would all sell quickly.

I have my doubts about a Darne ever ending up on a wall at a Cracker Barrel.

Especially in Tennessee. There are places where Darnes are common, but, you generally fly in a plane for a day from Tennessee to be in that place.

Best,
Ted

I have NEVER EVER seen an LC Smith hanging on a Cracker Barrel Wall, Never. I have been in quite a few Cracker Barrels in my time & they originated in TN.
Some years back an article appeared in the American Rifleman entitled "Americanization of a VC" as I recall. Seems an officer with the US Military was retiring & his status allowed him to take back one war souvenir. Someone already had one picked for him, but he didn't want it, requested to be able to pick it himself. He was carried to a warehouse & showed a BIG pile of guns of all descriptions just tossed on the pile. He went & changed into some old clothes & spent 2-3 hours digging through until he found something that suited him. His Pick. A 20 gauge Darne with all metal coated in rust but didn't appear to be badly pitted. It was totally Sans Wood of any description. I seriously doubt Cracker Barrel would have accepted it as I also have never seen a gun grace their walls sans a stock. To make this as short as possible he carried it home cleaned it up, blued it etc & made a new stock for it all on his very own. He was not a professional Stocker, just a rank Amateur.

We are all quite aware of your opinion of the Smith, most of us here do not agree with it. I have owned Smiths in the past but do not at present, but even 10 years ago I would have certainly jumped on that 16 gauge for $100.00 like a duck on a June Bug. Smith at least knew where the safety on a shotgun belonged, under the thumb.

We live in enlightened times. One of the things that I find enlightening is how some of the best gunsmiths, who consistently produce the best work, have washed their hands of work of any sort involving L C Smith�s.

The safety you are so happy with the location of is a poorly made, sloppy mess according to one of them. You can disagree with him. The guy with the Vietnamese Darne had a gun that, while not ergonomically perfect for everyone, was a hand made and well engineered example of the gun makers art. The barrels were silver soldered in a mono block. Not soldered with corrosive flux. There are other comparisons I could make that highlight the differences, but, you should get the point. Time hasn�t been kind to the shortcomings of the �Smith, and the sad example our own jOe posted is not a rare sight at most gunshows.

I think you would actually be surprised at the number of people right here who agree with guys like Dewey, and have moved along.

Col Frederick Roseman was an advanced gun tinkerer, by the way, not a rank amateur. He noted in the article he had been able to get any shotgun apart in his hobby, but, almost met his match with the Darne.

Best,
Ted

Miller, correct me if I am wrong, but don't you shoot a Darne Halifax???Gil

I am fond of the L.C. Smiths--I prefer to own and shoot the pre-1913 graded ones in 12 gauge-- But I read and re-read Dewey Vicknair's thesis on various double guns, and would agree with him 100% on his analysis of the Smith hammerless mechanics-- ditto the faults with the Ithaca Flues, and of the over-complexities of the Parker design.

That being said, I got involved with "Elsies" because: (1) there were more of them on the market, especially in 12 gauge, at pricing way below the Parker and A.H. Fox shotguns, and because I found the lines of a sidelock shotgun more "graceful" than those of a boxlock double.

I have never shot anything "hotter" than a AA Trap load in any of my Smiths--and over the years, I have epoxied the wood of the stock head in that "vulnerable" area under the locks--

I only own 1 Smith post 1913 series- a Ideal Grade "LONGRANGE" series- 32" F&F, DT, AE- and in the past 5 years since I bought it, have NEVER shot a 3" Mag shell in it, nor any Steel shot either. It had been in storage for years since the original owner bought it, and no cracks in the wood anywhere. I intend to see that it stays that way. I mainly use it on high crows and barn pigeons with AA 7&1/2 Trap loads-- if I do my part, birds crumple and leave a big cloud of feathers in the air.

The only gunsmiths I know of who work on Smiths today are: (1) Buck Hamlin in Mo., and (2) Jerry Andrews in West VA. No doubt, some of the gents on the L.C. Smith Collectors know of others.

Gil;
Let's say that I do own a 16 gauge Halifax @ 5lb 14oz. I have shot it, Some. From about 1970 to the present the vast majority of my shooting has been done with an FE grade Lefever. At that point in time, I was not as fully convinced of shooting Damascus as at present. I had a set of 26" Boehler Steel barrels made for it in Italy choked .012-.024 With it I have killed quail, woodcock, duck, rabbits, a few squirrels & a couple of Turkey.

My second most used gun was a J P Clabrough 12 gauge Damascus with 28" barrels choked .010/.010. I used it on quail, woodcock & rabbit using 1 oz loads of either #8 or #6 @ about 1150 fps.

Don't read me wrong, the Darnes are good guns but so are the Smiths. There are those who like either or both, those who like one but not the other & those who don't particularly like either. Purdey, Boss & H&H are well outside my budget, so frankly I'm like the Wise Old Owl, I don't truly give a Hoot what Mr Vickner thinks of the Smith. He probably doesn't like my Lefevers or the lowly Clabrough either, but I do.

Rinky Tinky or whatever Ted called it, I'll take the thumb push Smith safety over the abomination of the Darne safety any day of the week. Never had a problem with the safety on any Smith I ever owned. I too prefer sidelock guns over boxlocks. Admittedly the Lefever is not a true sidelock, but its handling is more like one than a boxlock. Notice sometimes that for a given length of barrel & pull a typical side lock is a wee bit longer than a typical boxlock. The triggers on the sidelock are from �-1 inch further back from the barrel breech. This gives a slight difference in balance point & handling, A feel I prefer.
This is primarily due to the placement of the locks. The Lefever has essentially an identical lock placement to the sidelock so the same feel.

Truly I only joined this discussion because of the idea that a complete L C Smith in 16 ga with an easily repairable stock by a proficient amateur should be either Nailed to a Cracker Barrel Wall or Parted out in Pieces was just more than my tolerance level allowed. In my "Personal" opinion for whatever it's worth either of those solutions is Sheer Ignorance of the value of the gun in question.

None of this is intended as a Personal Attack on anyone's opinion, just we all have different ones & I normally do not " Bad Mouth" another man's gun which he likes & suits him, even if I don't personally care for them myself. Sometimes though one just gets pushed over the Edge.

He's taking offers...

Your buddy looking for marks, er, customers, for the chunks of that $100 gun?

Best,
Ted