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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
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Nash Buckingham had an HE Super Fox built for him by Burt Becker. He called it "Bo-Wup" because of the sound that it made when it fired.
On a duck hunting trip down South he forgot & left it on the fender of the car & drove off without it. An APB was put out but it was never found........UNTIL RECENTLY
I recently had the pleasure of seeing Bo-Wup in person & up close. It's been expertly restocked (the original was broken at the wrist, possibly when it was run over by the car). On the right barrel is inscribed: "MADE FOR NASH BUCKINGHAM" on the left: "BY BURT BECKER". The gun has not been refinished.
George L
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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Sidelock
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I heard the story, except the part of it being found. It wouldn't suprise be to be a couterfeit as they've been doing that to Colt SAA's for a long time now. What does the owner show for evidence of authenticity? Any bloke could inscribe "made for nash buckingham" etc on it.
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Is the serial number of Buckingham's gun known?
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Sidelock
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I thought it was "Bo-Whoop".
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Sidelock
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Maybe Bo Woops for da fahgitinest genteman.
jack
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I own that gun, I keep it next to George Washington's axe.
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Sidelock
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The second Bo-Whoop is at the DU headquarters if memory serves. Rumors about the original being found have been around for decades.
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Sidelock
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A much better find than the Czar's Parker I'd say.
...but the Parker would draw the crowd at a very rural VFW Hall's meat shoot.
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Sidelock
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Wait a minute, now ... I have George Washington's axe, and they say he was da choppinest genteman you ever did see! TT
"The very acme of duck shooting is a big 10, taking ducks in pass shooting only." - Charles Askins
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Sidelock
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I have a couple of Ted Williams's guns, so don't think you have the market cornered.
Last edited by postoak; 08/26/07 09:45 AM.
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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Sidelock
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I think we do know the serial number of Nash's first big Becker. I think it was mentioned on the Fox website not too long ago.
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Sidelock
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George, the check's in the mail!!!!
Doug Mann
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Sidelock
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The original has some pretty distinctive features, the opening lever being one of them. Would be a hard gun to fake in front of a Fox expert.
Best,
Ted
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Restocked...Original Broken at the Wrist!!!!!I have photos of the Original & No 2 ,,And No 3.....and the one found in Minn.#4... Tom Haas is rolling over with laughter.."Whoops" he's been Dead' for all these Years....I'm sure this Original #... has the Becker Secret Mark in the Secret Spot..This is going tobe a very interesting Story......Has it been Noted by the Fox Fraternity' that the 'Eisenlohr' Fox #35 will be on the Auction Block @ "The Tsars Parker Salesman's Venue here in Maine, Oct. 07. cc /dt
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More snake oil from George L. ???
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Sidelock
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Maybe Bo Woops for da fahgitinest genteman.
jack Rabbit, that made me laugh out loud. Thanks! I needed that.
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Sidelock
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DT, who is consigning the #35 Eisenlohr gun? I offered to purchase it years ago from the "upbeat" Mr. Headrick when I offered to sell him the barrels, but he was not interested. I guess he didn't remember the offer when he decided to sell it. I guess it has passed through a few different hands since then. Bill Murphy
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You never forget your first love or your last Becker Fox--even when the other guy buys it.
jack
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Sidelock
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I was talking to a guy at my gun club today about Nash Buckinghams Fox...he told me Nash never owned or drove a car.
When people picked him up to go hunting he would be sitting on the curb in front of his house in Mid-Town Memphis with all his gear ready to go.
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Sidelock
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There is an excellent article in the new DGJ Index and Reader about Nash and B0-Whoop. It also mentions his old Hammer gun that he used in his early years. His initials are scratched on the pistol grip. A Duck Hunting friend of mine bought am old Hammergun of the same brand a few years ago from a Negro man in Mississipi. While cleaning it he found the same type of scratched NB under the buttplate as in the DGJ reader. We feel confident that it was Nash's first gun.
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8b......I know Nothing of Whom is the Releaser" of Fox History... But I will Place the Frank Barthmaier,(Gold Signiture in Guard-Bow Sr No 121 No Safety, ST Grip hand, on the Photo of No 35....Might make Good Copy for a 'Writer Of Note" Who has said he Feels like the Bastard Son of Ansley H F."...So much History...and its still being 'Made"......cc/dt
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Courtesy of CC: "I was told this is one of the last photos of Nash Buckingham with 'Bo Whoop # 2. Now in Memphis Tenn..." 
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Postoak, if you would like a gun from Ted's famous cousin,J.C. Higgins, I have one for your collection?
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I know where there is a rare Parker used in the early stagecoach days. It has Wells Fargo stamped on it. This guy let me see it once.
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Fascinating what you can turn up if you poke around.
I know the guy who has Sam Walton's personal quail gun. Who would have suspected that someone with his fortune would shoot a lowly, straight stocked Remington 1100?
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Sidelock
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Barthmayer Super-Fox courtesy of CC  
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Sidelock
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I know who owns Ted Williams' Model 21, he is very local, but it is very closely held. I was first shown the gun by its previous (deceased) owner many years ago while Ted was still here in Washington and alive. It is now in the hands of the previous owner's son in law, a nice young man who knows "which end the shot comes out". By the way, who is CC that provided the picture of the signatured Fox? Oh, my gosh, it's Crossed Chisels. How soon we forget.
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Sidelock
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Stallones, now you've done it. Now all Fox collectors are going to be hassling Negroes about their hammer guns. Can't we just learn to get along???
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Sidelock
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 What can I say?
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Hey, David, (or CC), would you be interested in properly fitting the "non original faked up" barrels if I can successfully bid on old #35? You may also be interested in trying to match the "non original, mismatched, and faked up" forend that came on those barrels? I couldn't resist. I may be struck down by Missouri lightning for saying that. That's just the kind of rhetoric I had to endure to get the gun and the barrels back together. It was probably worth it. Bill Murphy
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Sidelock
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Postoak, if you would like a gun from Ted's famous cousin,J.C. Higgins, I have one for your collection? I thought Ted's cousin was Joe Mossberg.
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Sidelock
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Faked up guns are not news. Legit part for them is a little weird.
I was looking at a high grade, small bore, that is missing the fore end. I happen to have one and considered buying the gun and fitting it to the gun. I did not think that there was a need to send it out for engraving of the proper serial numbers, which seems to have been left of by the maker. But I can understand the temptation to do it because the sale price as is is about half the restored price.
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Forgive my ignorance, I've heard the many tidbits here about "Bo Whoop" but don't have the DGJ article nor any other ref.
But, who was Nash Buckingham and what's the significance of "Bo Whoop"? Just the Reader's Digest version would do.
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At first, I thought you may be kidding but I assume you are asking. According to some, he was the Faulkner of Wingshooting. Hunter, shooter, conservationist, writer(Da Shootinist(?) Gentleman(check gamefair.com for other 1st editions). He also had a column in a hunting magazine that I can't locate at the monument. Mostly from what I have inquired: it was a love or hate relationship.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
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"Toys" ol'8b, was your word to describe guns/rifles with non-original barrels.
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Sidelock
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Every post in this thread up till yours made some sense...
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If I recall correctly, Nash was not "De Shootinest Gent'eman"; he wrote the story of that name. Didn't Nash say it was Harold Money?
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I have a buddie that can replicate the sound that "Bo Whoop" made. Several years ago when we were shooting hi-power matches we bought some surplus powder known as BW-36. I loaded some for my 308 and my bud loaded some for a '06 Garand. My loads performed OK, but when he shot his '06 the report was a long "Bo Whoop" accompanied with a huge muzzle flash. Come to think of it, it was more of a BuhhhhhhhWoooooooommmmmm!!! He gave me the remaider of his powder, 
Dodging lions and wasting time.....
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To Steve Dodd Hughes,.....You Talented Bast**d"!!!Your 'Fame" has spread to the 'Island of my Spawning". I sent a copy of your 1st Book to a Former Purdey Gunmaker, Who went through the London "Blitz" with me & 6 other of Purdey "Kids". It has since been passed onto 10 Gunmakers (I can give you some of their Very Positive Comments when we next meet over a beer).cc..Crossed Chisles' Note the Churchillian spelling of Chisels. DT.
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One more Ref. Book to add to Michael Petrov's list, Winchester Press 1973."The Best of Nash Buckingham" edited br George Bird Evans. Really Great Photos of 'The Way it Used to Be' cc.
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David, Am hoping to gift you with a copy of the new book (and another copy of the first one) at the Vintage Cup in MD. Have you ever seen the Custom Rifles in Black & White book? Thanks for the kind words, you have been an inspiration for me!
Steve
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I saw this Super Fox at a shoot in Michigan recently. Nice gun, hope there are some better pictures available because it's pretty nifty. http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...=true#Post25914
Last edited by Erik330; 08/27/07 01:57 PM.
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Maybe George should contact Nash's heirs and let them know his gun has been found? Seems like the right thing to do . . . It is not like Nash sold the gun or the original owner can not be identified. Just a thot.
Ken
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NOOOOOOO, unless it ends up in the right place.
Don't expect full spread with pics in DGJ on this one unless it goes back to it's rightful owner(s). Why would anybody want to keep that thing knowing it belongs to someone else? I would not touch it with a "10ft pole".
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It would be pride of ownership behind closed doors.
Many things in the world of art are bought-up, never to be seen again.
It would be a hush-hush affair - just you and the vault would know.
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Another pic from CC. 2nd or 3rd Becker bored Fox HE built 
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I recognize that Joe Knapp Club medallion. David, we can photograph both Joe Knapp guns together at the Vintagers if you will bring yours. I understand there are more very close to the Vintagers. What do you know about them? wilmrph@verizon.net Bill Murphy
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Those wishing to find more about Nash Buckingham, should try and locate copies of the following two books.
Nash Buckingham letters to John Bailey by George Bird Evans
Nash Buckingham Beaver Dam and other hunting tales by Dr. William "Chubby" Andrews
Both great reading!
Craig
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The Bo Wup would be especially valuable to a collector if he enjoyed his guns behind closed doors and happened to be named Bo Wup.
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Addendum..whatever......Thanks to revdocdrew for posting Fox HE 12b Original 3'' chambers 32' Tubes, Sr No 27809,McIntosh recorded No 27800 HE 12b 32'inch Bbls. 2.3/4" chambers,oct 20 1922 for a Dr H H Liebold..as the 1st Production HE. Rowe Clark found no other HE Mods.prior to "My Old Beater".(No 27808 has no card in the file) 27810 was not a HE.Of course this was back in Nov.1993, and the"Hammering of Gunsmiths beating their Artifacts into "Parfoxelsielefeverithicawinch has still the reach its Zenith!...So by now ,maybe the records can show that 'WE' were all wrong with our Research!!Back in 2005, James Fender and 'Self" did a artical on No 27809,"Member of the Joe Knapp Club". MMcI & Self, Did shoot several of my Orig, 3inch Super X CARTRIDGES through the old Becker Bores....cc
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For a long time no one thought the Tsar's gun really existed, or Lt. Dixon's $20.00 double eagle dented with the bullet that saved his leg. as to "Bo-Wup or Whoop" (as you prefer) I do not own it & do not know who does. But I have held it in my hands on several occasions & have a copy of a letter of authentication from the Fox historian stating that this was the serial number of the gun built by Burt Becker for Nash Bucingham.
I'll bring a copy of the letter (with the owner's name deleted) along with some pictures of the gun to Easton if anyone is interested. I found it fascinating.
George L
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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George, I heard the same story and was really excited to learn that it was still alive and well. Back in the spring i should have went to look at it, knew exactly were it was. I thought i shouldn't say anything. Shot allot with one of the guys... Next time you are up this way, look me up http://www.aaquailplantation.com
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There are quite a few guns out there that letter to Nash Buckingham, but are not Bo Whoop. I imagine many of his aquaintences asked him to order a gun like his (Bo Whoop) for them.
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More from CC 
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I discovered at one time, although I can't locate my notes, that early HE production was in serial numbered "batches", I think of 25 guns each. I can't remember how many batches I identified before Fox started to number them randomly. I don't think the batches were as large as 50, or my 27,850 would not fit in. If batches were 50 each, my gun would be a continuation of the "original batch" starting with the first gun, 27,800. I am guessing that the first batch was 27,800 to 27,825 and the next batch began with my gun, 27,850 and went to 27,875. I may be all wrong about this, but some day I may find my notes if I took any. It was very clear in my mind when I was reading the cards. Just for your information, HE #27,850 has enormous Becker style bores but the order card mentions nothing about Becker or the size of the bores. Bill Murphy
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This is a confusing thread. Is George saying that the gun he has seen is the ORIGINAL Bo-Whoop that was lost from the car fender? Not the SECOND Bo-Whoop?
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Boys, IMHO what we're apparently talking about is a STOLEN GUN. There was enough publicity at the time the gun was lost and ever since for any fool to know who the gun belonged to. It ought to have been returned to the rightful owner and still ought to be returned. Folks posting about personal knowledge of Bo-Whoop's existence and location are likely to be "interviewed" by the authorities or invited by subpoena to appear in possible civil cases...Geo
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Not stolen, but left behind or misplaced. The thing belongs in NFM or at that place in Cody, Wyoming. It's practically an outdorsy treasure, so it's very selfish of someone to keep it behind closed doors. NOOOOT  You know, before the advent of the net boards I never heard of Nash Buckingham. I'm still a bit "foggy" on knowledge about him.
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Yeah, STOLEN! If you lose your wallet and its found along with all your identification or even if the I.D. is missing, the finder doesn't get to keep it. Each State has laws regarding this situation and in all of them I know about, the result is the same...you find something, you give it back to the owner or turn it over to the authorities. If you don't, you stole it or you are guilty of recieving stolen property...Geo
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+1 to Geo's post.
The wallet analogy is a good one. I don't remember is Nash had a son or other family, but I know if I was that son, I'd be more than a little pissed that my dad's gun was being shared in some private "show and tell" and had not been returned to me.
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I agree that the current owner should give it up if it is, in fact, the real deal. I do find it odd that George claims to have handled it several times but does not know who the owner is.
George, can you confirm who "the Fox historian" was that provided the letter of authenticity? Finding Bo-Whoop is breaking news in the Fox world. I suspect others would have heard about it's resurrection if it was true.
I think ol' George is full of beans.
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The current don't know how to refer to him would never have sent for a letter, so why bother Georgi? Who's going to believe it's real?  Go on, delete the name Homer Simson! 
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McIntosh and I were just'Jiggling with each other'...on the phone,not like when we used to write the Technicana Column's for"Shooting the Sportsmen" mag.He remembered all the"Hoopla" concerning the finding of the"Original Original Fox-Becker"HE" lost in 1948. His Bo Whoop Super Fox. We couldnt remember, was it in Sporting Classics,I have a collection of info. on the gun. cc
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Eric, the "Second" gun is accounted for. It is the "First" gun that is lost, or maybe found.
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It's very simple. The gun is the real gun, when it comes to owning it or bragging about it. When it comes to being stolen or getting a visit from the ATF, it is a just a copy.
Why is that so hard to understand?
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To be fair, most States have a Statute of Limitations or Statute of Repose which might preclude criminal prosecution of the current possessor of Bo-Whoop, but a civil recovery action by the heirs of Nash Buckingham would probably still be viable because hiding the existance of the gun for all these years would Toll any limitation of action. I still call it STOLEN though; this ain't a tricky ethics question...Geo
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Given the publicity surrounding the loss of this gun, would it not appear on police/ATF lists? Does anyone know the serial numbber of the origional Bo Woop?
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Hope all you guys have the proper paperwork other than the back of a bar napkin for your guns.
What does the law say about possesion 99% of the time?
Last edited by Lowell Glenthorne; 08/28/07 06:18 PM.
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Well, this is NOT a dilemma to me and any proud Southern Gentleman.
If this is the real Bo Whoop that was lost by a Southern Gentleman and passed thru some number of hands to another, and present, Southern Gentleman, all our Mamas are waiting to see that the right thing is done.
I can only hope that our heritage still has some meaning.
Best,
John ---being held captive in New Hampshire and longing to smell Low Country pluff mud once more !!!
Humble member of the League of Extraodinary Gentlemen (LEG). Joined 14 March, 2006. Member #1.
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George,
Would you be so kind as to describe the stock and fore-end configuration on the HE you saw and handled? I'm curious as to whether it was restocked like the original. Thanks.
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Well Mastershooter !!!
Considering that they offer a gift subscription and you did not order one for me. I subscribed for myself.
My sincere thanks for directing me to that mag. As both a gardener and gun man, too old and ornery to anything more, it may just be my kind of read. Being that it is centered in Charleston, the HOLY CITY, it is almost too good to be true. My heart is always in that place.
Thanks, and my best.
John
Humble member of the League of Extraodinary Gentlemen (LEG). Joined 14 March, 2006. Member #1.
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Say yo' daddy came across this gun in a trade for an ol'plow.
Now he was just an everyday good ol'boy who liked to hunt ducks.
...and he has with Bo-Whoop for forty years.
Not being a student of Fox guns, but just a plain sort - would you blow the whistle on your pappy?
Last edited by Lowell Glenthorne; 08/28/07 09:37 PM.
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Bo-wup belongs in Memphis Tn. at the DU Headquarters....about 10 miles from where Nash lived.
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Graceland & Bo-Whoopland all in the same town?
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Gee, just look at the # of views this subject received since 25th. Best get your Fox Shotgun while you can!
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I was told that it was re-stocked identically to the original down to the pull, DAH, DAT and as close to the original wood as was possible to obtain. The original broken (at the wrist) stock was present as well.
George L
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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I am curious as to how many duck/goose hunters currently use a Fox? I bet most duck hunters wouldn't have a clue who Mr. Buck was as well as know the name of his double.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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George L:
DO YOU HEAR ME, SON !!!!
Or are you some weak blooded excuse for Southern Honor ???
Have you forgotten that when introduced to an elder lady, the first question asked was, " Who was your mother"?
Blood, family and heritage did mean something at one time.
Is that a figment with you????
If you really are what you purport to be, then I know you understand.
Show your colors or forever be absent from those of us that still consider ourselves GENTLEMEN whose blood and heritage means more than a fart in a windstorm.
John
Humble member of the League of Extraodinary Gentlemen (LEG). Joined 14 March, 2006. Member #1.
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The market once "owned" by Auto-5 went to PB Corp. (Benelli & Beretta "Superautos". That's what monied wildfowling guys use now. 
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I know what they use and it's a sporting challenge to go toe to toe with them using a William Powell vs Rem. 870 trombone with candlesticks and collect as many or more game than they do. I don't shoot a Fox, however; this might not be the correct thread.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Hey, take it easy JM and check out his site. There is decent looking 5br 3.5 bath hacienda on 15 acres that would make a nice wintering spot for you.
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It seems that there are a lot of "sea lawyers" on this forum. For all I know the gun was returned to Nash's descendants. It wasn't in the possession of the owner when I saw it & as I said I have no idea who the present owner is (and don't want to). It seems that some of you folks love to drag the BATF into every discussion. You might want to be a little careful there that it doesn't turn around & bite you.
I merely thought that this forum might truly enjoy hearing about the discovery of a long lost treasure. I didn't hear of Jim Julia
putting out an APB trying to find some Romanovs. When my friends & I go American Civil War relic hunting (my other passion) & someone finds an ID tag or another relic with an inscription we try to identify the original soldier but seldom have I heard of anyone trying to find his great grand offspring. Words like "STOLEN" "FAKE" etc. just sounds like sour grapes to me.
George L
Last edited by George L.; 08/28/07 10:46 PM.
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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Are "sea lawyers" subjects to a Bar?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Spoken like a true DAMYANKEE!
George L
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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George L.:
I well know the definition of a "DamnYankee" and I am not one. My folk entered property before the war of Northern aggression and before the carpetbaggers arrived.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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I am curious as to how many duck/goose hunters currently use a Fox? I bet most duck hunters wouldn't have a clue who Mr. Buck was as well as know the name of his double.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse I believe there are still a few of us around... HE FOX (Becker barrels and all) after an Illinois goose hunt and a N.D. duck outing.
Last edited by Utah; 08/29/07 01:36 AM.
The target lies within.
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Thanks for the kind words Erik. I'll see if I can get a few more posted this morning.
The target lies within.
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When my friends & I go American Civil War relic hunting (my other passion) & someone finds an ID tag or another relic with an inscription we try to identify the original soldier but seldom have I heard of anyone trying to find his great grand offspring. Words like "STOLEN" "FAKE" etc. just sounds like sour grapes to me.
George L
George L I hope you see the difference in Nash Nuckinghams shotgun and a relic from a casualty of war. Bo-wup and Nash Buckingham...Untill this thread started I'd never heard of Bo-wup. I had heard of Nash Buckingham the writer/hunter. If it is Nashs gun it should be in a museum not in some perverts collection.
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[quote=Erik330]
Thanks for the kind words Erik. I'll see if I can get a few more posted this morning. Lets not bring the for sale section up in this thread.
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The issue of the ownership of a gun lost so long is open to debate. The law of "finders" varies from state to state. As most here have posted the rule usually is that if the original owner is known then the property still belongs to them. But, as also noted, there are statutes of limitations and other possible issues.
I agree with the general sentiment here that the gun belongs in a collection/museum but I doubt the present owner would willingly "give" the gun away even if it is the right thing to do. I think all of us know it is rather valuable.
And, who knows the gun's history since that fateful day when Nash and friends probably had a drink or two in the marsh and left the gun when they drove off. The gun may have gone through any number of possessors and/or sales since then.
If the gun is out there, possibly it could be purchased at a fair price and put in a museum. No recriminations necessary. The talk of STOLEN etc. will just drive it further underground.
Just a thought.
Jake
R. Craig Clark
jakearoo(at)cox.net
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Thanks for the kind words Erik. I'll see if I can get a few more posted this morning. New pics posted. http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...ge=0#Post54312]
Last edited by Utah; 08/29/07 11:42 AM.
The target lies within.
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So, George L. is claiming to have seen Bo-Whoop (the original) but doesn't know who the owner is? Okey-dokey.
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It may have been on consignment at the local used gun emporium. Give him a break. Oh, he is the local used gun emporium!
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Raimey: That was not directed at you but was a reply to John Mann
Best, George L
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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Bill: I wish I did own it. I know exactly what I would do with it.
Best Regards, George L
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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ellenbr, both of my Philly Foxes(AE & Sterlingworth) have seen the insides of a reed & willow blind - and on occasion, a mallard for my Labs to fetch.
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Mark me down on the side of those who use Foxes for duck hunting. According to which way the cat throws his tail I will use either my A grade Philly 32" three incher or my HE. Both with bismuth.
George, still don't know the stock configuration of the restock. You say it is like the original. Then, that would be straight gripped. Col. H. P. Sheldon, who handled the gun personally wrote that it also had Nash's name and address ENGRAVED on it. If the gun you saw had been so engraved it would seem you would have mentioned it. Maybe an oversight on your part, but I would think that to be worthy of mention. Count me a skeptic until more proof comes forth. Not questioning you personally, George, just the gun.
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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So, shall we say that would make a baker's dozen of Fox doubles and maybe there's 20K(stab in the dark guess) duck hunters?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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"I wish I did own it. I know exactly what I would do with it"George L.
George L., somehow I believe that if you did have possession of Buckingham's Fox, you'd return it to his family. If it really exists, it should have been returned long ago.
Considering the matter further, it seems to me that every time the gun has changed hands, the statute of limitations on the felony crime of "theft by recieving" has been extended. Its not necessary to prove the original theft by conversion to prosecute for for the crime of "fencing". Although the Statute on the original crime of failing to return the gun to its rightful owner may have long expired, the present party in posession is probably still subject to prosecution. And just because the original thief is no longer subject to legal prosecution doesn't mean the gun wasn't STOLEN.
I'm no sea lawyer, I'm a sure'nuff bonified ringtailed "Juris Doctor", and I'm not the least bit envious of whoever has the gun now. I also don't wish to see a STOLEN Gun and I don't care to own any of Herman Goering's stolen european art either.
George L., you may have betrayed a confidence in reporting the Bo-Whoop siteing on the internet. Personally, I hope this leads to a prosecution of the present party in possession of Bo-Whoop...Geo
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Stan: I took some digital pictures of the gun & the markings. I'm trying to find the chip that they are on. The gun was & is straight gripped. As my memory serves me it was marked: "MADE FOR NASH BUCKINGHAM" on the right barrel at the chambers and "BY BURT BECKER" on the left. I don't recall there being an address either for Nash or for Fox on the barrels. The markings appeared to be in typical Fox print style. I learned today that the gun has gone back to it's present owner along with the Fox historian's letter (of which I have a photocopy). I note that this piece has generated 100 comments & I think that's GREAT! Ansley, Burt & Nash would surely be proud. I'll bet Ansley would have said: "Doublegun BBS is the BEST FORUM IN THE WORLD!"
Best Regards, George L
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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would that "owner" happen to be a shepherd that runs his herd on the powerline right-of-way?
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George, George, George - The gun was lost & obviously later found. It was not STOLEN! Perhaps the original finder had no idea who Nash Buckingham or Burt Becker were just as several on this forum admitted that they didn't know who they were either. I'm certainly no lawyer, sea or otherwise, I only practice a little real estate. However, as someone aptly pointed out: "possession is 9/10ths. of the law". Those were much different times back then & wishing someone be prosecuted without having all the facts seem a bit childish to me. There is too much real crime out there that needs to be dealt with. Those are my views on the subject. By the way at this moment I am told the gun is 3 or 4 states away. I can only guess which states away from where?
Best Regards, George l
Last edited by George L.; 08/30/07 12:19 AM.
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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Maybe I don't know what "real crime" is. I hope you never misplace anything DEAR to you...Geo
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I'd say the Bo-Whoop is in the public domain - nobodies' goin' to jail George. Once your trash hits the curb, it ain't yours anymore. Finders keepers, losers weepers I think is the law eh!
Why would Nash's kinfolk have any rights to the gun?
Have you ever seen an ad in the DGJ, Shooting Sportsman or bbs for his gun stolen or missing.
Perhaps we care more than they!
Last edited by Lowell Glenthorne; 08/30/07 12:56 AM.
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'Nash had blinded up in a dense thicket of willows along the edge of a clear channel some 150yards from my own stand (Col. H.P. Sheldon). A pair of mallards traveling high and in hurry went over Nash. Both collapsed and after a moment of complete silence the double boon of the big came rolling roundly over the marshes. It sounded exactly like two solo notes from the bass horn in a symphony orchestra, and I mentioned it to Nash when we got back to the lodge. Bo Whoop, Bo Whoop.'
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I'm beginning to add all this up. First, the gun came from a "fine family collection". Second, it is the "best ever found". Third, it has lettering on the barrels in "Fox-like block letters". Fourth, it is "three or four" states away. I wonder if number five is "not a screw ever turned"??
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The only thing that keeps a gun from becoming "finders keepers" is the fact that it is a gun...there are no statue of limitations on a gun stolen...and I don't think there would be a statue of limitations on a lost gun either.
I think knowingly selling a lost gun could constitute a crime.
Could the Fox historian be called as a witness in a crime ?
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If I had the gun I would cut it up into 1" squares and sell them to all the Nash Buckingham groupies, just like they did with the sheets the Beatles slept on in 1964. That's the only way to end all the arguing.
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Didn't the story go, that the gun fell from his bumper?
The gun is, who has it now and not a judge worth his salt would rule against this.
j0e, might you check to see if there is a police report on file?
Glad you guyz didn't write for Perry Mason.
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Vague recollection of time spent with the gun and now can't find the memory chip from the camera? Easy to recollect what has been previously documented... Fun reading any how.
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dt asked me to post these pics, and his commentary to follow: Fox HE #311XX The Original Bo Woop......Lost January 1948  2nd Becker built on Fox Action Sr No 121..See McIntosh's AH Fox Book for explanation of the 'Upside down No Ones in the Serial Number"!!! Photo from the Trevallion Collection 
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Geo....."REAL CRIME" is when they kill your dog, break into your house, rape your loved ones, kill you & then steal your guns to sell at the flea market to buy crack!
George L
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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If any one of the other American gun experts would have started this topic, the love feast would have followed.
Something like!
I hope you enjoy your long lost treasure - a real piece of Americana you've in your hands.
Couldn't be happier for ya!
Yep, my attorney and I are letting Nash's kinfolk a last visit before I sell the gun.
Last edited by Lowell Glenthorne; 08/30/07 09:24 PM.
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It is all crime, George. It is just a question of degree. The crimes you cite are certainly worse than this one. But one does not excuse the other. If there is no crime, why doesn't the owner display the gun for all to see instead of keeping it hidden? Just maybe he has something to hide? Hmmm. It ain't that tough an ethics question guys.
Or maybe I'm all wrong and I should have just helped myself to the the nice Perazzi MX8 that was mistakenly left on the sporting clays course a few months back. It is not like it had the guy's name on it. . .and it is not like it was YOUR gun. Yeah, guess I should have kept that one . . . apprarently there would have been nothing wrong with that. Just a thot.
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Sidelock
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I was leaving my gun club a few weeks back....as I drove by the last pistol range I noticed a big black bag sitting on one of the range tables...it was chock full of handguns. No cars or anyone in sight.
According to you hOnest Johns I guess the guns belonged to me...remember "finders keepers".
I turned them in at the range office.
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Sidelock
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Good thing j0e, it was a sting operation in your hood.
A bag full of gang banger's nines.
"I was leaving my club," sounding very much like Ricky Ricardo.
Last edited by Lowell Glenthorne; 08/30/07 10:53 PM.
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Sidelock
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IF...IF this is theOriginal Fox "HE" 12b DB that has the Serial No 31108 and has been ReStocked.. I would pay Whatever the asking price, for the Original Stock with the original Recoil Pad. I have posted the photo that was sent to me by "A FRIEND OF TRUTH" ot "THE ORIGINAL "BO WOOP"...David Trevallion.
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Sidelock
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"T" give us the good word!
Bo-Wup?
Bo-Whoop?
Bo-Woop?
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Sidelock
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The only thing that keeps a gun from becoming "finders keepers" is the fact that it is a gun...there are no statue of limitations on a gun stolen...and I don't think there would be a statue of limitations on a lost gun either.
I think knowingly selling a lost gun could constitute a crime.
Could the Fox historian be called as a witness in a crime ? So Joe, Is this a Federal law? Jake
R. Craig Clark
jakearoo(at)cox.net
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Sidelock
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I think you had it right in your earlier post Craig, lay back and let'em start to think the old rules don't apply anymore. Maybe they'll get a little more brazen and a little less careful about who they invite to their secret "showings". They may be desperate now to get some greater fool to take over possession of the STOLEN goods. I might have been wrong to raise a fuss and scare the fish...Geo
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As grainy as the old pic is one can plainly see it does't have the "water faucet" top lever of Bo Whoop. That picture was edited out of the photo of three guns leaning against a wall in "The Best of Nash Buckingham." It is listed as a Super-Fox 12. It is not listed as Bo Whoop, and with its slim and short Fox factory forearm certainly is not the Burt Becker built Bo Whoop. Between the testing of the Super-X shells in a Super-Fox loaned Nash by Western (1921), and his getting Bo Whoop (1926) he had a couple other Super-Fox 12s. Right below the picture this one was edited from is a 1934 picture of Nash holding Bo Whoop, but it is from the bottom and one can plainly see the Ivory forearm tip inlay.
Last edited by Researcher; 08/30/07 11:44 PM.
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This thread has changed my outlook. Next time a guy asks me if I want to go to his secret room to see his Bo-Wup I might just take him up on it.
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Make sure it's not one of those "I will show you, but then I will have to kill you" deals! 
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GregSY,
If it's a Senator, don't go.
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The Casque of Amontillado. Must take care. Jake
R. Craig Clark
jakearoo(at)cox.net
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Last edited by Utah; 08/31/07 12:33 PM.
The target lies within.
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That was po', Jake, real po'...Geo
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Last edited by Utah; 08/31/07 03:43 PM.
The target lies within.
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Squire G',My only Ref. Book is "The Best of Nash Buckingham" Winchester Press.1973. by Geo Bird Evans *Irma Buckingham Witt".. See more Good Info' from Researcher today....The caption under the Photo of NB with"His favorite gun, the first Burt Becker magnum"Bo Whoop" & his Chubby Spaniel Springer" McIntosh, just yesterday,Told me "More Secret Stuff"!!! So much to learn, So Little Time........I'm tied to the bench with F J Barthmaier right now would like to see Mr B's Live Pigeon gun #121 in the Company with Mr Eisenlohr's Fox # 35...Gun history waiting to be Made'(At least Fox Collecting History)..cc/dt
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Sidelock
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"Writer of Books" with Super Fox 'HE" #27809 and English Springer, Wellington courtesy of DT. 
Last edited by revdocdrew; 08/31/07 06:29 PM.
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Should have called it " Bo-Whoops " !!! Now where did I put that gun ??????? N.B.
Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought stupid,than open it and confirm.
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Boy, spend a couple of days on bizness and see what happens?
Nothing that says that anyone has seen the original Bo-Whoop, or did I miss something other than Glenthorne blabbering?
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Sidelock
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Well as I understand it, George L. has personally seen the gun and has photographs to prove it.........I guess we'll see if he can actually produce.
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Bob: I'll have them with me at Easton & Pintail Point. I have no authorization to put them on the net or make copies.
Best regards, George L
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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David: I was given to understand when I first saw the gun that it was not for sale bat any price.
George L
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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The man who has Bo-Whoop is no different than any collector.
He came by the gun, cash was exchanged and now it sits.
He is not a crook nor cat burglar, he's just been it's caretaker.
He could be one of us.
Bet 9 out of 10 would keep the gun under wraps too!
To my knowledge, the family has been kinda nil on getting it back.
Anyone see a reward for the gun?
I see rewards for lost cats and dogs posted everyday day on telephone poles.
Last edited by Lowell Glenthorne; 09/01/07 08:16 AM.
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To clear up a couple of 'Points concerning the "HE" original 3' chambered 32' that Author MMcI is holding, # emails all asking the same question, No its way too old for NB to have tested it after Mr Becker had bored the tubes, I'm sure Researcher' and Others who have made a study of all the Fox Records Know just about all there is Know...My knowledge of all these 'Foreign Guns and Rifles" is only gained when, or after I have Repaired, Rebuilt,Restored,Replaced.....Whoops......Replaced Parts..That paticular "HE" was the Subject of a Excellent, in Depth Study of the History by Capt' James Fender,(with some of my 'Stuff' thrown in to colour it up!!)SSM sometime in 2005 I think. As to the Original HE that Researcher pointed out to me that Mr Buckingham is holdingin George Bird Evans's book, thats the 1st pic. I have ever seen of it!.Ivory Forend Tip! (Have to remember that point!!!!!)I hope all Interested Parties will have Cameras at the ready when the "Original Bo Whoop" is 'Unveiled at"Pintail Point" Dont forget to look for Mr Becker's Secret MARK".....That is if somebody is going to Strip it off the wood.I had trouble with the "Wobblies", Turnscrews wandering away from'Screw-Gashes' when I stripped the Tsars A 1 Special down in front of Cameras,Parker Collectors,Lawyers,Cheering Section with the Jelly Doughnuts. all done on a wankie old card table, to boot!!!But that turned out "Well & Good" I Sincerely hope for the same Result when "Bo-Whoop" makes Her/His Grand Entrance back to "Foxdom"..CC.(Boiling 20 1.1/2lb Maine Lobsters' for the Parrty........
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Lowell: You nailed it! That's exactly what I think.
George Lander
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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Sidelock
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Great minds must think alike.
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Great minds must think alike. :)
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George L.:
What was the serial number on the double you described?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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The man who has Bo-Whoop is no different than any collector.
He came by the gun, cash was exchanged and now it sits.
He is not a crook nor cat burglar, he's just been it's caretaker.
He could be one of us.
Bet 9 out of 10 would keep the gun under wraps too!
To my knowledge, the family has been kinda nil on getting it back.
Anyone see a reward for the gun?
I see rewards for lost cats and dogs posted everyday day on telephone poles. Signs on telephone poles don't last forever ....besides I doubt the loss of the gun worried Nash too much. I still say the man that owns bO-whoop is a crook....and I think George L and the owner know that I'm correct. That's why George L stuck his head in the sand...
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The current owner is not a crook, but he has moral standards of a mold!
Gee, when are we going to stop talking about this "bang, bang" which amounts to little more then early "10lb" A grade? Whatever happened to the one that Ernest Hemingway blew his brains out with? Was it not a Purdey? Maybe we could talk about Teddy's Fox?
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I agree there are allot more interesting guns than a Fox.
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A number of years ago, someone purchased, for a significant sum, the WW2 "confiscated" (stolen?) O/U set that was Adolf Galand's. They then gifted the set back to Galand, who was still around at the time. This person that gifted them back knew that a wrong had been done, probably by an American, and was in a position to right it and did so. A very honorable gesture to be sure.
For those that don't know, Galand was the head of the German fighter forces under Goring.
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Jagermeister, I believe the gun Hemingway used was a Boss, but I may be wrong.
DH
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I would have used the Boss if I owned one. I would prefer a 16 bore, one of those great old 24" jobs that used to show up years ago. They were ribless, very light, easy to handle when you had to support them by the muzzle. Of course, a double trigger is preferred since there is no chance for a second shot with a single trigger. The 24" barrels are a real help when you have to handle the triggers with the muzzles.... well, you know.
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Hemingway in Cuba, 1950s, after a Live Pigeon shoot at the Havana Gun Club. He is holding the Boss 12b Pigeon Gun purchased from Abercrombie & Fitch with which he took his life July 2, 1961. The gun was later destroyed by his family. Courtesy of David Trevallion 
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Sorry gentlemen: I've been reorganizing the PictureTrail albums and ALL the Trevallion BoWhoop stuff is together on the 'Trevallion Trivia and Technicana' album http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=17647963So far, no C & D documents have found their way to the desert, so here they are again: Becker No 1 for Nash Buckingham, 'Super Fox' HE lost January 1948. http://www.owaa.org/legends/legendNashBuckingham.htm "Nash had blinded up in a dense thicket of willows along the edge of a clear channel some 150 yards from my own (Col. H.P. Sheldon) stand. A pair of mallards traveling high and in hurry went over Nash. Both collapsed and after a moment of complete silence the double boom of the big gun came rolling roundly over the marshes. It sounded exactly like two solo notes from the bass horn in a symphony orchestra, and I mentioned it to Nash when we got back to the lodge. Bo Whoop, Bo Whoop." http://www.beaverdamnorth.com/bdnhc.htm http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1940482&type=story 32" barrels and unloaded weight of 10#. Straight grip stock with 14 1/2" LOP, 2 1/4" drop at heel and 1 9/16" at comb.   Becker No 2 HE 12 Magnum David Trevallion: "I was told this is one of the last photos of Nash Buckingham with 'Bo Whoop # 2'. Now in Memphis Tenn..."  Barthmayer Super-Fox    Joe Knapp Club medallion  Michael McIntosh with Super Fox 'HE" #27809 and English Springer, Wellington.
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CC: I just finished reading a great article on Bo-Whoop Nos. 1 & 2 in the Double Gun Journal Index & Reader Volume I.
Best Regards, George
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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Hemingway in Cuba, 1950s, after a Live Pigeon shoot at the Havana Gun Club. He is holding the Boss 12b Pigeon Gun purchased from Abercrombie & Fitch with which he took his life July 2, 1961. The gun was later destroyed by his family. Courtesy of David Trevallion I read the definitive Hemingway Biography thirty years back, I could have sworn he ate a 20 Ga. Boss ?
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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