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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 325
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 325 |
Was reading disassembly instruction for my Batavia Leader 12 ga and there was a warning about short chambers. It is serial number 142XXF, F for Field grade I suppose. This is a side lock that looks a lot like an LC Smith. I am trying to measure the chambers, but getting dizzy looking down the bore and trying to measure. Does anyone know whether these guns were made with chambers shorter than 2 3/4" ? Do you measure to where the forcing cone starts or ends? My measurements show the forcing cone to be 7/8" long. Does this sound right? This is my favorite turkey gun, it shoots where I look. thanks for the help
Charlie
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103 |
I'd guess the chambers are 2 3/4", but why not just measure them? Roll up a piece of copy paper to fit the chamber and push it down the breach until you feel the end. Mark the spot on the paper and measure it with a ruler. Then you know for sure...Geo
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,896 Likes: 110
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,896 Likes: 110 |
The F at the end of the serial number is for Folsom, H & D Folsom Arms Co. in NYC that acquired the Gun portion of Baker Gun & Forging Co. about 1919. Folsom continued to make/assemble Baker guns, most likely at their Crescent Fire Arms Co. factory in Norwich, Conn., to about 1929. Whether the chamber is 2 5/8 or 2 3/4 inch to the break from the end of the chamber to the forcing cone, it was intended for 2 3/4 inch shells.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 325
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 325 |
thank you both very much.
I am guessing the forcing cone is considered to be part of the chamber when measuring.
Charlie
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514 Likes: 13 |
thank you both very much.
I am guessing the forcing cone is considered to be part of the chamber when measuring.
Charlie No sir, the forcing cone is considered forward of the chamber. John
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,742 Likes: 496
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,742 Likes: 496 |
When shells used fiber wads a lot of guns had slightly shorter chambers with very short forcing cones. This was done to give them a better gas seal. With the change over to plastic wads, which would flex to seal better, it was found a longer forcing cone gave better patterns. Gas was still sealed because the wad skirt would expand to fill any gaps. Many doubles had the forcing cones relieved slightly, which I find a bit better than lengthening the chambers as a whole. But with so many ways to find proper ammo these days it is an unneeded alteration to me.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,896 Likes: 110
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,896 Likes: 110 |
Here is a visual from Ithaca Gun Co. --
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Note that for the 2 3/4" 12ga if both chamber End & bore are on "Nominal" dimensions with 0 tolerance then with the cone angle of 5°30' the cone length would be 0.358" long. With the SAAMI suggested cone of an even 5° the cone length for same chamber & barrel dimensions would be 0.394".
It is I believe also noteworthy that for dimension E (chamber length) Ithaca uses the nominal length, not the shorter one some companies used. Everyone can, of course, make up their own mind, but personally, I would be leery of using a shell which was longer than the chamber in a cone with a steeper taper (Shorter Cone) than the 5° suggested by SAAMI. Perhaps a max of 1/8" would be OK, but would not want to use a shell a full 1/4" or even 3/16" longer with that short a cone.
I also note this was dated 3-10-39 & that the 28 gauge was still listed as having 2 7/8" chambers at that point. There is also a revision listed which carried the chamber ends for 10 & 12 gauge magnums to a 4 place decimal rather than rounding tp three which was dated 11-6-45 & nothing else seems to have changed during that time.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,384 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,384 Likes: 106 |
Also interesting to note, from that chart: Choke constrictions were the same for the 16 and the 20.
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