doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 10 ga. pigeon guns

I think Dave is off on a tangent. I am referring to the ATA shooters. However, my tubed skeet guns are getting a little hard to handle in my diminished physical condition. My Beretta 682 is a friendly 9 pounds, but my K-32 is right at 10 pounds and very unfriendly.

Since we're on to gun weight, this might be of interest

In 1886 the lightest 10g offered by L.C. Smith Maker was 8 1/2#



At the Riverton Handicap March 8, 1895 only one of the 15 competitors used an American made gun.
�It may be interesting to some to note the guns and loads used, and we give it below. It was a lamentable fact that of the 15 guns used only one American make was represented. This was a special pigeon gun of the Parker Brothers' manufacture, and was a beautiful weapon in every way, and was owned by Mr. Post, whose score of 93 on a hard lot of birds did not show that the shooting power was lacking.�
�All the guns were 12 gauge, and it was noticeable that not a full pistol-grip stock was among the number, and most of them were the straight-grip �pigeon gun� model, nine being of this description, and six of the half-grip style. All were of the hammerless pattern excepting two; Mr. Welch and Mr. Robbing using hammer guns.�
Following is the make of guns and loads used:
Capt. A.W. Money - Greener, 7 1/2 pounds.
George Work - Purdey, 7 1/2 pounds.
Post - Parker pigeon gun (AAH introduced in 1894)), 7 11-16 pounds.
Jim Jones - Scott, 7 3-16 pounds.
John B. Ellison - Scott, 7 1/4 pounds.
Fred Moore - Purdey, 7 7-16 pounds.
Leonard - Westley Richards, 7 1/2 pounds.
Mott - Crown grade Greener, 7 2-16 pounds.
J.S. Robbins - Greener hammer gun, 7 1/2 pounds.
R. Welch - Purdey hammer gun, 7 1/2 pounds
Downing - Scott, 7 6-16 pounds.
J.K. Palmer � Francotte, 7 1/2 pounds.
Edwards - Scott Premier, 7 pounds.
J. Wolstencroft - Greener, 6 15-16 pounds.
Eckert - Scott Premier, 7 1/4 pounds.
Shells were 45 - 49 grains (3 1/4 - 3 1/2 drams) smokeless powder and 1 1/4 oz. shot.
Capt. Money (2nd in the 1894 GAH) and George Work (3rd in the 1893 GAH) tied at 94 killed.

1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. (1275 fps) in an 8# gun = 27 ft/lbs, and there are links to vintage live action videos showing the reaction of the head and body to that recoil here
http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/vintage-live-action-trap-and-live-bird-shooting.514889/

This is Tod Sloan possibly at West Chester. At the 1901 GAH at Live Birds Sloan used a W & C Scott & Son with 1 1/8 oz. and 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. DuPont Bulk
1 1/8 oz. at 1300 fps in a 7.5# gun would have about 25 ft/lbs of free recoil



The Baker Gun Quarterly, Volume 5, No. 3, May 1900 had an article on the weight of Trap/Pigeon guns (all 12g) used by Capt. A.W. Money (8 pounds - Money used a Greener, Smith, and Parker), C.W. Budd (7 pounds 14 ounce Parker), H.D. Bates (winner of the 1900 GAH at Live Birds; 7 pounds 13 ounce Parker), R.O. Heikes (7 pounds 15 ounce Parker but after the GAH at Live Birds he went back to his Remington hammerless and won the 1900 [1st] GAH at Targets), J.S. Fanning (7 pounds 15 ounce Smith), W.R. Crosby (7 pounds 12 ounce Baker), and Col. A.G. Courtney (7 pounds 14 ounce Remington CEO).

I once handled a Barber & Lefever 10 gauge hammer double at a gun show in Nashville TN. It was on a display only table, not for sale & belonged to a dealer I had got to know rather well.

I neither measured the barrel length nor had the opportunity to weigh it. I am quite certain though it had around 28" barrels & I guessed its weight at around 7� lbs. At that point, I only had my original FE Lefever 12 which had 30" barrels & weighed in @ 7� lbs. This gun was both shorter & lighter.

I could very easily see myself carrying it afield as a "Bird" gun with proper lloads. It was neither a Waterfowl nor Pigeon gun.

I own a Darne 10 with 70 cm barrels that weighs 7 pounds 3 ounces and an Alfred Hollis 10 Gauge hammer gun that weighs about 8-1/4 pounds. Both have 2-7/8 inch chambers and are quite fun to shoot. They didn�t all require wheels or a bearer.

Rem40X
I have heard of some Darnes & I believe some other brand of 10 which weighed quite light. That old Barber & Lefever is the lightest 10 I have ever personally picked up & of course I was not able to shoot it, would have loved to then.

I have a 1888-89 Crass in 10 ga. that is light, 8 lb +/-. 30 " barrels mod & full and 3" chambers. Other than the serious drop, it is fun to shoot.