doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hey, Drew! -- Confirm a picture for me? Re: NID

I never used Eutetic welding products- mainly due to high cost and limited access (travelling salesmen)-- BUT- I saved area farmers beaucoup $ when I told them to buy Lincoln 308-16 elc stick rod, instead of the over-priced Eutetic rods-- I once welding a leaf spring from a swimming pool jumping/diving board that had fractured- preheat to 450 via Tempilsticks, 1/8 dia 308-16 ELC Lincoln rod at 105 amps DE reverse polarity- spaced small length weld- backstepped, and asbestos cloth wrap to allow slow HAZ cooling after cap pass-still in use today, btw-- RWTF

I have found silver solder easy to use, and have never had a failure of a joint soldered win it. I also like that it doesn't leave the yellow joint line, like ordinary brazing.

I just remembered that the name of the type I've used is Silvalloy, from Brownell's.

SRH

I didn't know you were a Gun smurf....

Welding can be done by the process, as in making a Twist or Damascus tube, by bringing the metal to a fusing heat where they will stick & join. It can also be done with the use of filler metal, but the base metal that is being joined is melted to make the weld.

Solder is a method of joining two parts in which the base metal is not melted but simply wet by the solder material. This is further broken down as either soft or hard solders. I do not recall the exact temperature this change of terminology takes place but it may be around 750�. Lead-tin, force 44 & all similar are soft solders. "True" Silver solder & brazing fall in the Hard solder category. Most all of the lead-free soft solders have a major component of Tin, with the addition of small quantities of other metals, often cadmium & sometimes even a Trace of silver. None of these are True Silver solders. The hard solders, including true silver solders, require a higher temperature to flow & result in a stronger joint than any of the soft solders. Solder such as the above mentioned easy-flow 45 flow at a lower temp than brazing but still well above the soft solder range. This particular one I am very familiar with has very good wetting properties & flowing properties, but it will require an
oxy-accetylene torch, you can't get enough heat from a simple propane or mapp rig.

I don't have an oxy-acetylene rig nor enough confidence to use it on a barrel set.

Thus my hope that it is a "soft" solder of one type or another.

When you said you were equipped to relay ribs, etc., I naturally assumed you had oxy-acetylene torches, rosebuds, etc. I can't imagine being without such a versatile tool. I have several sets ranging from large torches with 220 cu. ft. oxygen tank to a tiny set with miniature brazing torches and 10 cu. ft. oxygen with size MC acetylene tank. They are useful for so many things aside from gun work that, should you buy a set, you will kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

I bought one larger set new. It was bought with my first paycheck after I graduated from college. My first welding project with it was building a cart for the tanks. The other sets were bought much more reasonably at auctions etc. The cart I built for the small set with a size B acetylene tank and 40 cu.ft. oxygen tank has a collapsable handle, and I can lift it with one hand and put it in the trunk of a car. I don't know anybody who owns an oxy-acetylene outfit that regrets having one.

The one with which I am familiar is Silvaloy 355, in wire form. It is 56% silver, and contains no cadmium. It flows at 1205 degrees. I use my farm shop O/A rig with a very small welding tip and pretty low gas pressures. I don't like the work to get to flow temps too quickly, but prefer to bring it up slowly. It's more controllable for me to do it that way. Last thing I did with it was replace the guide pin on a Fox ejector. I detailed that procedure in the Gunsmithing section several years ago, AIR.

There is a special flux recommended for it, but I haven't used any for several years, and don't remember the name.

P.S. I was remembering wrong. I used a BernzOMatic propane torch to do the ejector repair job. It will easily get up to temps for Silvalloy, on small parts, as it can reach into the 2200 degree range. I read back over the procedure I posted and was reminded of that.

SRH

Stan;
That is pretty much in the same range as the easy-flow I mentioned. With that much silver content, it would be considered a true silver solder. I don't recall now if Force 44 or the Eutectic I mentioned have any silver at all or not, but if so probably no more than a % or so. Many people call these silver solders but in reality, they are not.

Yes, I have done some "Small" jobs with the easy-flow even using a propane torch But doubt one would have much luck repairing that breech rib extension with one. Just too much mass there to heat. As to just how hot the flame burns is not the whole story, you also on larger work have to have enough Volume of flame. I have a little Pencil Torch that is refilled with Butane same as grill lighters. The flame itself is plenty Hot but so tiny that for anything with much mass to it the heat will simply dissipate faster than it can be put in.

Absolutely, Miller. I agree that an ordinary propane torch may not get it hot enough. Wouldn't hurt anything to try it on an old scrap set of barrels to see. Some of the kits sold come with different tips for the torch head. One I recall is a spreader type tip, but whether it has a larger orifice in it, to actually make more fire, I don't know. Don't think I've ever used it.

SRH

Temperature at tip of a neutral flame on an oxy-acetylene torch is almost 6000 degrees F-- critical temperature of mild steels (1018 AISI) is aprox. 2350 degrees F-- use of Mapp gas instead of acetylene is aprox. 5300 F-- propane 5120 F-- not all that many welders today know how to recognize a neutral flame-- in part due to: Usage of plasma arc to cut and pierce ferrous metals- usage of the right oxygen pressure and delivery of fuel gas is critical to a good solder or braze joint-- In soldering, you do NOT break down the parent metal of the joint being soldered, in brazing you approach the threshold of bringing the parent metal to its critical temperature-- The key to both processes involves moving the flame cone constantly--

Two criteria I have when I visit a welding shop, especially if they have TIG-- (1) available supply of TemilSticks-- (2) separate smaller wheel grinder for Tungsten only-- RWTF member AWS--