doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com JABC, I hope not

The maker was a large firm at turn of the century and made a wide range of guns. The Belgians did not lack skill in gun making, more of a lack in marketing to the USA. They could, and did, build best quality guns.

ML seems to me to price out as Brand Value level four (BV4), lessor known and valued brand name. A pristine example of their best original quality grade SLE would go for about $10,000. This gun appears to be an Original Quality grade four (OQ4) based on the amount and quality of engraving and the grade of wood to off-set the lack of ejectors, the back action locks, and slightly dated (flat back)action styling. The current condition seems to fit to "heavy use, but no abuse", which is Current Condition level four. The screw heads are an alarm bell, but the barrels are described as good and the pictures don't indicate a beat-up gun. So, BV4-OQ4-CC4 = $1600. 28% of likely retail generally is associated with the word "bargain." If I were off by a full OQ grade and a full CC level, BV4-OQ5-CC5 = $900, it would still be half price. Nice buy!!

Manufacture Leigeoise d'Armes a Feu--sounds much more prestigious than the English translation "Liege Firearms Factory"--but as noted above, they made some pretty nice guns, like yours. Too bad someone messed with the screws, but otherwise it looks pretty darned good.

If you're correct on the date of production, the appropriate proofmark would be 12 over a C (assume it's a 12 gauge) inside a diamond. If it's a somewhat later gun (post-1924), it would be marked 12-70 inside a sort of capital C. I'm thinking maybe a later gun, because it's a bit unusual to find earlier Belgies with 2 3/4" chambers (unless they've been lengthened).

Should have included photo off proof marks in original post; note the 12/C in a diamond, bore and choke as a fraction, no date code, chambers are marked on barrel 70/20.6. It has the normal lion over PV nitro proofs, plus a lion over ECm3, my info shows the EC mark but not the m3, anyone know what it means? I plan to take care of the stock problem , clean up the screw heads and have the barrels re-blacked. The action was originally case colored but it looks OK with honest wear, probably best to leave as is. Jim

The use of the word "steel" probably indicates export to USA.

Beginning about 1892 it became a requirement for the chamber dimensions & weight of bbls to be marked on all guns receiving the optional Nitro Proof. As you stated the 70 is for 2 3/4" shells & the 20.6 (.811") is the dia just ahead of the rim seat in MM. You appear to have a good grasp on Belgian proofs & probably already knew this, but thought I would throw this in for those who perhaps do not.

Jim, looks like you've got that gun pretty well figured out. My proof references don't show anything on the m3 either, but in view of its proximity to the EC mark, I'd guess it may refer to a more specific variety of the bulk smokeless powder EC--although that's only a guess.

In Wirnsberger's Standard directory of proof marks on page 123 he lists several powders said to be suitable for use in semi-smokeless proof which could be specified by the applicant. Among these under British powders is listed EC3 with the 3 being writen as an exponent. I think Larry has nailed this mark as being a specific lot/type of EC powder, even though the M is not shown in this reference.

Dustins Manufacture Liegoise 16 gauge hammergun





Dustins gun and my Francotte.

James1..Wow , lovely Gun..i'm partial to nice Belgan guns
Fair play to you for taking a chance on a verry pretty but seemingly "internaly Challenged " Gun
You must have whooped n hollared up a storm when you figured it out & got her working.
Thats a very handsome Gun mate..
Is there by any chance any stamping on the under rib mentioning HY Andrews, Sheffield, England?
I have a nice Belgan SLE, the lockes have the "Britte"Co mark inside & have the Andrews marks mentioned above.I have heard of other nice Belg guns with Andrews BBLs.
Is there no script type letter like e for the date code on the bbl flats?
shoot her in good health....what a bloody good price eh?
cheers
Franc

Franc, I checked the under rib, nothing there but the normal belgian marks, and ML trade marks. Mo date code on the flats but there is an asterick without any letter plus the regular inspectors marks. I had a pretty good idea what the trigger problems were as the sellers photos showed the triggers in a odd position. There is a lot of quality Belgian and French guns out there if you keep your eyes open, a lot of clunkers too.