doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Traits of a pigeon gun?

Stan, I am a bit curious- what was the deal with the exploding ping pong balls? Sounds a bit like a EOD situation.. RWTF

Fox,

Kruger lost a major part of his trigger hand many years back when he was just coming to prominence in sporting clays by messing around w/homemade explosives.

He compensated for the disability very well!

Yep, he uses a velcro glove to grip the gun, and little finger to pull the trigger. Impressive determination.

Jon filled the pp balls with some compound that would explode upon impact of the shot. He was an exhibition shooter at sporting events, and would throw them up and shoot them, giving a boom! and visual effect. He held the shotgun on one hand as he threw them underhanded. He mistakenly hit the buttstock of his shotgun with the balls in the other hand, which exploded upon impact with the stock. He lost every digit on that hand except his thumb and pinky finger. He pulls the trigger with that pinky. When Jon was in his prime he won nearly every sporting event in the US shooting that way. He struggled with a terrible flinch for much of his competitive career, and finally went to a release trigger a few years ago. Funny thing, the way he utilizes it ....... most release trigger shooters pull the trigger as they call "Pull!", then release it when the lead looks right. Jon doesn't pull it until just before he wants the shot to trigger, then instantly releases it.

I developed the same kind of flinch a couple years after getting serious about sporting. I asked him one day at a big shoot if he would work with me on my flinch. He laughed and answered "Who's gonna help ME!?" Both of our flinches were similar. We just couldn't get the trigger to pull when our brain said shoot. It is like a short circuit of an electrical system. I could usually recover and break the bird late, but it brought no small amount of amazement to my shooting buddies, and no small amount of consternation for me.

SRH

My recently purchased Pigeon Gun is a Francotte boxlock:

It looks like in UK by the 1883 season, according to Holt's shooting calendar, the weight of pigeon guns was limited to 7lbs 8 Oz according to the Hurlingham Club rules..by far the most influential club in England:



This was advertised by several pigeon gun makers, most notably Reilly who won the majority of matches in 1882:


There are several posts on DGS of Cyril Adams' Reilly pigeon guns (at least one line about an important historical pigeon gun was unfortunately deleted because of graffiti smeared all over the line by the usual suspects)..I believe Adams' Reilly were all originally Hurlingham weight.

From reading Cyril's newest book, and speaking with him a few times about pigeon gun characteristics and availability (lack of, actually), it seems he personally favors 8 lbs. + for an exposed hammer pigeon gun.

I certainly do, too. I just don't like shooting 3 3/4 - 1 1/4 loads in anything under 8 lbs., for 30 birds, plus possible practice birds.

SRH

Bill, for whatever my opinion is worth I am familiar with the Skimmin&Wood you obtained from a mutual friend. I always thought of it as a duck gun since it had 30" barrels and an automatic safety...Geo

I went back and looked at the two Reillys for sure owned by Cyril (and you guys are the experts). Both have been discussed here and pictures posted. Both are hammer guns. Both these guns wound up in Los Angeles, I speculate to the same collector. For the record:

23574 - 8 lbs - I dated this gun as late 1881. It must have been built to 1882 Hurlingham match weight which was indeed 8 lbs that year.
http://www.vintageguns.co.uk/category/guns/page/13/
A beautiful bar-in-wood side-lever 12-bore hammer pigeon gun with two sets of barrels, third bite and scroll engraving. Cased in leather. This was used as his go-to game gun when Cyril Adams (see 24534 another Cyril Adams Briley choked gun) visited the UK for many years.It has been fully restored in England by the best gunmakers and is proofed for modern 2 3/4″ shells. We guarantee it for 12-months
Details
Maker
Stock Number CA56
Type Hammer Guns, Live Pigeon Guns
Gauge 12
Weight 8 lbs
Stock
Grip Straight Hand
Length to centre 15 1/4"
Length to heel 15 1/4"
Length to toe 15 1/2"
Forend
Catch Hackett Snap
Ejectors None
Barrels
Type Steel
Length 30" both sets
Rib Flat, pigeon type
Chambers 2 3/4" both
Choke Right: Set 1: 3/4 Set 2: Briley
Left: Set 1: Full Set 2: Briley
Serial Number 23574

24534 - 7lbs 8 oz; I date this to late 1882 - likely built it to the then new 1883 Hurlingham rules per his advertisements.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/817298429
Extra heavy 1 1/2 oz. London proofs with 3" chambers. - 31" Fluid pressed Steel barrels with flat filed top rib. - Purdey style under bolts and slotted hinge pin. - Nearly 100% coverage fine scroll engraving. - Dolls-head extension. - Fully filed action with highly detailed & intricate Percussion style fences. - Extra heavy firing pins - Hackett patent snap on fore end - Beautifully figured French walnut stock and fore end with nearly perfect 28 LPI checkering and English Leather covered pad - Highly sculpted, "below the line of sight" hammers. ncluded are cleaning equipment and spare springs and firing pins. .....Dimensions: STOCK: Modern Flat comb competition dimensions: 1 3/8" x 1 3/8" x 14 3/4" LOP. Cast off for Rt. hand shooter (can easily be bent) Weight 7 lbs. 8 oz. Barrels 31" Bores: L: .733" R: .728" Min Walls: L: .031" R: .035"

Actually the numbers and weights of both these guns are once again validation of the method of dating Reilly's....I'll add this to the Reilly chart.

Don't you think we've heard enough of this O'Reilly crap ?