doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com JP Sauer SxS, 16ga; model? year? value?

The "cave man" mark is Sauer. It , in reality, is Hercules with a club.
Three in a row should be interpreted as a much higher grade than one alone.
The proper libation after a hunt with this gun is a FIVE STAR spirit as opposed to a three star.:}
Best,
John

I was under the impression that the proper libation was a liquid of the peat/peatmoss variety but not less that 18 years of age?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I'd vote with Chief here about date, retailer and diet, though it looks like it's in pretty good shape and it might bring a bit more from the right person. I'll _guess_ that the DRGM (Deutsche Reichs Gebrauch Muster - not quite a patent, but a design registration) might apply to the design of the self-cocking (selbstspanner) mechanism. Typical 1892-1912 German proofs.

I've not seen first part of the style of mark "P16___65.9,75 S.P.28,5 BL", but the 9,75 S.P.28,5 BL looks more like a proof level load than a service load: 9,75 grams (150 grains, nearly 5-1/2 drams!) Schwartze Pulver (black powder) and 28,5 grams (439 grains, or just over an ounce) Blei (lead). The P16___65 is temptingly close to Patrone 16 (16 gauge cartridge) 65mm long.

If it is "4,75 S.P." instead of 9,75 it would be 73 grains or 2.6 drams, just right for a typical service load.

Hercules (not a caveman) is Sauer's maker's mark. Don't know of any significance to multiples, probably just restamped because the first ones didn't get clean stamping. The 16_65 would probably indicate 16ga with 65mm case (approx 2.5inches). 28.5Bl is gram weight of lead shot for the service load. The other marks are 9.75 grams of Schultze Powder.

Please email me I am intrested

lennart_abrahamsson@telia.com

Have the gun again and checked the markings. The actual stamp under the barrel reads:
PAPP.16__65.4,75S.P.28,5 BL.

I bought the J.P. Sauer & Sohn book by Arfmann but didn't learn anything new on the gun. Emailed SigSauer and any records from the time were lost in fire and/or bombings.

I measured the LOP based on front trigger to midpoint of butt, this came out to approximately 13 3/4.

The drop at heel measures approximately 2 3/8.

A collector friend of my brother-in-law said its condition is 85%.

Thanks again for the interest.

Steve Meyer has the proof load info down and it is correct. 16 gage 65mm chambers...etc etc. J.P. Moritz was a retailer of Sauers (and other makers) located in Leipzig. I have seen a number of Sauers with the Moritz name on them over the years. Selbstspanner system is "self cocking" as someone has already noted. Not a commonly seen marking on Sauer's but that does not necessarily add anything to its value. DRGM (fill in the number) is commonly seen on any number of Sauer made shotguns and its intent was to show that the use of the feature was allowed under license. This Sidelock has the neat "watch hand" cocking indicators so commonly seen on the early guns. The three "man with club" stamps on the bbl was more likely to have been intended as a manufacturing process stamp similar to the use of Dual crowns on the bbl flats. The Gun dates to around 1896 or so. Model is unknown at this time as no researcher thus far has been able to obtain a Pre 1900 Sauer catalog. (There are reports that there is one out there someplace in Europe) Value is whatever you can get for it! (It looks pretty clean though!) Thanks for sharing.

Jeff Stephens