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6 members (battle, SKB, oskar, 3 invisible),
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
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FFLs have no obligation to provide a copy of their license to unlicensed persons. In fact, the ATF suggests that they do not. ATF Advisory Letter March 2014 . . . licensees are reminded that only transactions between licensees require the furnishing of a certified copy of the license. Licensees should consider only providing the basic license number to individuals (e.g., 1-75-12345). The individuals can use FFL eZ Check to confirm the validity of the license number before sending payment for firearms advertisedonline. FFL eZ Check is on the ATF website at http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/applications-FFL-eZ-check. Thanks, bladeswitcher. But, what does one do when the seller refuses to send the gun straight to the buyer, and insists on sending it to an FFL ? This is the usual scenario, IME. SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 177
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2012
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Thanks, bladeswitcher. But, what does one do when the seller refuses to send the gun straight to the buyer, and insists on sending it to an FFL ? This is the usual scenario, IME.
SRH
I don't understand the question. It's federal law that interstate transfers have to go through an FFL. Direct shipments to unlicensed persons are not legal except when the sale is between two unlicensed residents of the same state. Also, the original question dealt with an unlicensed seller shipping to a licensed dealer, not the other way around . . . As a private seller shipping out of state, is there any federal requirement to get a copy of the FFL license of the place the gun is sent?
Last edited by bladeswitcher; 12/19/19 09:18 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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That's right. That's why an unlicensed person wants to send the gun to a FFL in another state. So, what does that person do when the potential buyer says that the seller does not need a copy of the receiving FFL's license, because he is not a FFL holder himself, as the link you provided suggests?
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 177
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2012
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That's right. That's why an unlicensed person wants to send the gun to a FFL in another state. So, what does that person do when the potential buyer says that the seller does not need a copy of the receiving FFL's license, because he is not a FFL holder himself?
SRH If I understand your question correctly, the guy needs to reprogram his understanding. If he's not an FFL, he needs to get over the false notion that he needs a copy of the receiving FFL's license. An unlicensed person does NOT need a copy of the receiving FFLs license. He only needs the first-three and last-five digits in the receiving FFL's license. With that information, he can go to the ATF's FFL EZ-Check website and confirm that he's shipping the gun to a valid license holder. That's all there is to it. Get the numbers. Look them up on EZ-Check. Ship the gun to the address that EZ-Check provides. THAT'S WHAT THE EZ CHECK WEBSITE IS FOR! It really is that simple.
Last edited by bladeswitcher; 12/19/19 09:27 PM.
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Yes! Thats what I did! There was some questions regarding my process, so I asked just to be sure! Thanks everyone!
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324 |
That's right. That's why an unlicensed person wants to send the gun to a FFL in another state. So, what does that person do when the potential buyer says that the seller does not need a copy of the receiving FFL's license, because he is not a FFL holder himself?
SRH If I understand your question correctly, the guy needs to reprogram his understanding. If he's not an FFL, he needs to get over the false notion that he needs a copy of the receiving FFL's license. An unlicensed person does NOT need a copy of the receiving FFLs license. He only needs the first-three and last-five digits in the receiving FFL's license. With that information, he can go to the ATF's FFL EZ-Check website and confirm that he's shipping the gun to a valid license holder. That's all there is to it. Get the numbers. Look them up on EZ-Check. Ship the gun to the address that EZ-Check provides. THAT'S WHAT THE EZ CHECK WEBSITE IS FOR! It really is that simple. Okay, but how would you suggest to a seller that he "reprogram" his understanding? And, what is the problem with him insisting on a signed copy of the receiving FFL's license, when that receiving FFL has no problem with sending it, and it is not illegal for him to ask for it? I know, you said the FFl holder "should consider" providing only his number, but it is not Illegal for him to provide a signed copy. So, what's the big deal? Two answers, please. SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 177
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2012
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Okay, but how would you suggest to a seller that he "reprogram" his understanding?
It's no different than when you're dealing with somebody who's wrong about anything else. You provide the correct information. That's all you can do. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.. And, what is the problem with him insisting on a signed copy of the receiving FFL's license, when that receiving FFL has no problem with sending it, and it is not illegal for him to ask for it? IF the receiving FFL is willing to send a copy of his license he's free to do so. When I was an FFL I gladly sent copies of my license. It wasn't a problem for me at all. But that's MY business and how I chose to conduct it. On the other hand, if another merchant is not willing to provide a copy of his license to an unlicensed person, that's his call. He's on solid ground with that policy. There are legitimate reasons to keep license copies within the trade and only provide it to other licensed dealers. He's also got the ATF on his side. The governing agency that issues the license suggests he refer unlicensed people to the EZ Check system. You can't blame a guy for following his "master's" preferences. So, what's our seller friend to do in this situation. If the receiving FFL is willing to provide a copy, great. Everybody's happy. But if the receiving FFL is NOT willing to provide a copy then our seller has three choices: 1.) Get over his insistence on getting a copy (that he's not entitled to), or . . . 2.) Find somebody else to do the transfer. 3.) Punt the whole deal. Ultimately, the ball is in the receiving FFL's court. It's his business. It's his license. He has every right to conduct it how he sees fit, within the parameters of the law. If our seller doesn't like it, he can move along.
Last edited by bladeswitcher; 12/19/19 11:42 PM.
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Sidelock
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Yes! Thats what I did! There was some questions regarding my process, so I asked just to be sure! Thanks everyone! Cool. Glad it worked out. The rest is just commentary.
Last edited by bladeswitcher; 12/19/19 11:58 PM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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As a private seller shipping out of state, is there any federal requirement to get a copy of the FFL license of the place the gun is sent? There are several states that require firearms to ship FFL to FFL. California, I was told Florida once on gun a sale and another time on a purchase. And God only knows for sure about states like New York and other liberal havens.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324 |
Okay, but how would you suggest to a seller that he "reprogram" his understanding?
It's no different than when you're dealing with somebody who's wrong about anything else. You provide the correct information. That's all you can do. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.. And, what is the problem with him insisting on a signed copy of the receiving FFL's license, when that receiving FFL has no problem with sending it, and it is not illegal for him to ask for it? IF the receiving FFL is willing to send a copy of his license he's free to do so. When I was an FFL I gladly sent copies of my license. It wasn't a problem for me at all. But that's MY business and how I chose to conduct it. On the other hand, if another merchant is not willing to provide a copy of his license to an unlicensed person, that's his call. He's on solid ground with that policy. There are legitimate reasons to keep license copies within the trade and only provide it to other licensed dealers. He's also got the ATF on his side. The governing agency that issues the license suggests he refer unlicensed people to the EZ Check system. You can't blame a guy for following his "master's" preferences. So, what's our seller friend to do in this situation. If the receiving FFL is willing to provide a copy, great. Everybody's happy. But if the receiving FFL is NOT willing to provide a copy then our seller has three choices: 1.) Get over his insistence on getting a copy (that he's not entitled to), or . . . 2.) Find somebody else to do the transfer. 3.) Punt the whole deal. Ultimately, the ball is in the receiving FFL's court. It's his business. It's his license. He has every right to conduct it how he sees fit, within the parameters of the law. If our seller doesn't like it, he can move along. I've only used two FFLs for this purpose. Neither have ever had an issue with it. I can't imagine why one would. I was a FFL holder for a good many years, until Clinton raised the yearly cost to an exorbitant amount. I never had an issue with it, either. And, I've never had a seller to "move along". Interesting commentary. Thanks. SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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