doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com After 100-150 years

The Overland Monthly, October, 1895, �Smokeless Powder For Shotguns�
https://books.google.com/books?id=Wv0MAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA447&lpg
Too much stress cannot be laid upon the weakness that has been very prevalent to overload with nitro powders, and we admit that the temptation to the uninitiated and the misinformed to put in each shell, the same amount, measure for measure, as they have been accustomed to do with black powder is very strong. This is a great mistake and it would be well to bear in mind that in handling any of the nitro powders the shooter is dealing with an entirely different compound from the old article. To those who are as yet unfamiliar with the methods of handling and loading the nitro powders, if they will use common sense which is simply to read the directions that are plainly printed upon all packages of powder, and follow these directions as to the quantity without question, they will have no trouble with their ammunition...

Sears, Roebuck & Co. 1907 Catalogue No. 116 courtesy of Gary Rennles
"When a gun barrel bursts at the breech or chamber it is caused by an overload of nitro powder, and when it bursts forward of the chamber it is caused by some obstruction...and will generally show a distinct ring inside the barrel. Every gun we offer for sale...is made to stand any proper load of nitro or black powder..."



http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/k80-blowing-up.476009/page-5
I stood next to a guy who blew up an off brand gun with reloads. There was quite the kaboom. The barrel flew about 20 yards behind him and landed up in a tree. Took us a while to find it because we were searching downrange. Amazingly, no injuries. He had been given reloading equipment by someone moving away. He had a press, some components, some powder in a plain brown bag, no scale so he used a powder bushing his friend recommended.

Damascus,

Your "facts" are so erroneous, and your presumptions so ill-informed, I suspect you could run for office here as a Democrat with rousing success, Old Bean.

1. Only a small percentage of gun owners hand load in America.
2. Your 'omniscient' knowledge of how barrel reaming is done here prompts me to inquire about winning lottery numbers.
3. Bursted barrels are similarly rare here, as on your small gray island. When one does happen it moves the "news needle" on this forum, but never the broader news. Think "anti's" wouldn't seize on that to "save us all" with more regulation?

Besides, even when overloaded, Damascus barrels of varying quality hold up about equal to steel of their era. I would refer you to Sherman Bell's old series in the Double Gun Journal called "Finding Out For Myself...but...I'm not sure if it's of any help to a man in England, as that publication was never printed in Farsi, to my knowledge.

NDG

Nudge, You could have made your point without being snarky. Perhaps that's just your normal tone. Guys like Damascus share a lot more with you than you're response acknowledges.

I am particularly sensitive to being spoken down to by those across the pond. It's a personal pet peave acquired by way of many business trips in that direction. I snark because of the haughtiness with which his [misinformed] comments were delivered, prior contributions notwithstanding.

I should have concluded, "Oh I'm sorry, did I come off as rude just then?"

NDG

I think damascus is a good guy, and I suspect he's been around long enough to have seen many changes. I don't know, but I think he can pass along what happens to a tradition when it is regulated and priced out of reach. Many of the most desireable British best guns and rifles are cased with reloading tools, which would imply these arms were intended to be subjected to some degree or another of human error.

What if, on a whim, low pressure factory loads in England are outlawed or regulated out of existence? Wouldn't it be a good thing if those folks had the options and desires to keep the classic guns shooting, just as you seem to do with some of the classic rifles that you've played with? Maybe, we can learn from our friends what not to do to our different but equally important history and culture?

I don't know Nudge. Lots of professional and back yard smiths have reaming tools but no barrel wall thickness gauge. I don't think Damascus is out of line when he assesses the general quality of the average smith dealing with pits and an old gun. Anyone who is an active member of this site is not part of the ordinary crowd.

I would say, however, that it is my belief the vast majority of burst barrels come from obstruction, not poor hand loads nor faulty and/or weakened barrels.

Canvasback,

My guess is you're right about obstructions being the primary cause.

NDG

I would guess that more good guns, rifles and pistols have been blown up during the proof process than most other reasons. Some of the well known brokers have posted here that they have submitted guns fairly regularly that fail the proof load. In those situations, there is no guessing about bubba gunsmithng or obstructions. Guns in proper documented specification go in on one end and come out the other end blown up. There's a romanticism about reading these markings, but if all guns go the way of grandpa, aren't they all just expected to fail sooner or later?

Craiged. I understand your question though to give you a definite answer would be difficult, but I will try. Reloading has never been in the forefront of Brit sportsmen for these major reasons. Using muzzle loading guns requiring black powder there are a lot of hoops you have to jump through here to purchase and keep gunpowder. firstly you have to have a gun Licence next you have to have a Licence for the purchase of Gunpowder and another to transport it then you have to have the correct storage container and all of this for a pound of the stuff. Now gunpowder is considered a n Explosive here unlike shot gun cartridge propellant that you can purchase by having a gun Licence, the Brit Government do not like the idea of people having explosives so make it difficult. That is why I gave up shooting black powder guns. Now to purchasing wads primers and smokeless powders shot and wads etc there are very few stockists these days so small turnover high cost, it was not so long ago that we could purchase imported cartridges at very advantages prices that reloading was a no braine, though things have reversed somewhat today.



In the photo is a reloading press from around the 1960s I purchased this from a very large market dealing in second hand goods by Liverpool, I purchased it at the end of the day for a cup of Coffee that was how much interest there was in it. Shooting here be it be clay or game can be far more expensive than Golf unless you have friends who are land owners so Golf Football and other pastimes win out in a lot of cases. Well you dont have to jump through the Licencing hoops like paying your doctor to say that you are mentally stable plus all the police rigmarole forms etc, it is far easier to turn on the Television and watch the Football, or go for a round of golf.
Hope this gives some incite to low level of reloading on this side of the pond.

Damascus

Thank you damascus for your thoughtful reply. It was much more informative than just a list of item prices. It reminds me to not take things for granted, and hope that there's a bit easier path for future generations of sport shooters out your way.