doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com After 100-150 years

I showed the muzzles of these Damascus barrels in another thread. Thought I would pop the ribs off to see what has transpired in the past 100-150 or more years. The first 2 pics in the top set are what the barrels looked like when the rib was removed. The next 2 show after a light cleaning with a brass brush. The steel is nice and clean including the barrel walls.





This next set of barrels, the first 2 pics are before a light cleaning, the last 2 after a light cleaning. Again, the steel is clean.





Both barrels showed no signs of rust through anywhere and I could poke no holes through anywhere. I cut several pieces off of the barrels and on none of the cuts could I see any signs of rust infiltration with a magnifying glass. I would have had no qualms about shooting either of these barrels with proper loads. Not bad for the age.

But...but...but�"everyone knows" the barrels are time-bombs!

Clark Towle
http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/damascus_barrels.html
Every time someone writes to the gun rags about a Damascus-barreled shotgun, he is told not to shoot it. For good reason... They tend to come apart like a cheap suit.
Age and corrosion within the laminates causes microscopic structural failures that actually de-laminates the steel. Damascus because of the dissimilar metals in contact with each other is sort of like a battery. A bit of moisture penetrates the layers of lamination and elecrolytic [sic] corrosion begins to seperate [sic] and weaken them. This in combination with the corrosive properties of black powder and the use of water to clean the barrels plus the advanced age of the shotgun sets the stage for disaster.

A collection of freshly cut pattern welded barrels prior to tensile testing - no "orange lace"

If they are properly "tinned ' to begin with There won't be a place for corrosion to start. '

By the very nature of making welded barrels, be they twist, laminated or Damascus, I am of the firm belief that any internal voids are closed up, &most likely welded. The same thing cannot be said of steel barrels of the era. POne is Far, Far more likely to encounter a "Seam" in an early steel barrel than a welded one.

I also fully believe that the fusion of the two metals does not leave a precise "Line" where this electrolytic Corrosion ( I presume the same thing as is often referred to as Galvanic Action) sets up. I read this often in print but it seems no one has actual proof of a barrel failure to which this can be proved to be its downfall.

Per another thread, I would point out that the barrels are pretty close to touching most of the way from the muzzle back. Looks like the barrels would touch if cut back.

Years ago a colllector/gunsmith friend said Parker dipped their barrels in a tank of tin prior to assembling them. He based this on the word of his grandfather who worked for Parker Bros. In fact he had a tank ot tin he dipped barrels in his own shop.

bill

After 119 years and still shooting:


Been hunted hard and put up wet before given to me 65 years ago.
The Parker Letter says it was made in the year 1900.
A few years ago, it finally developed an "off face " condition, so it went to a proper gun maker for repair. When returned, it was deemed "OK to shoot", so I did. It is a little short for me, but I shoot it once or twice a year for old times sake.

Oh, my Drew! You did throw in all the Techno speak but didn�t you leave out one of the most important causes of barrel tube problems, the passion for home reloading on your side of the pond with all its associated human mistakes. I feel sure that incorrect cartridge reloading has been the end for many a fine Damascus barrelled gun. Also there does not seem to be taking responsibility of adjusting things to take note of the guns age, well grandfathers may have been extremely fit in their younger days but you would not expect the majority of them to run a half Marathon every week end and as for great great Grandfathers it does not warrant thinking about.





This gun is a hundred and fifty rears old British nitro proof , using the correct Brit cartridges recommended for the chamber length there is no reason in the world why the Damascus barrels should not go for an other hundred and fifty years. But cartridge reloading on this side of the pond is not a popular thing to do. Plus ready made cartridge manufacturers are extremely careful in their manufacturing process not wanting to see the inside of a court room for negligence. IMHO the largest problem you have on your side of the pond is the barrel reamer used to remove pitting with no enforceable barrel bore limits to keep to safe limits as we do here. Ream the barrel to within an inch of its life to remove pitting then take it out and use it now there is your time bomb. A sporting gun barrel bursting on this side of the pond is extremely rare and would make the national news with news hounds for the full story all over it like a rash.

Just for consideration damascus, supposedly about thirty percent of all manufactured and imported smokeless powder is sold to hobby reloaders in the US. Possibly, the liability risk to those in the industry aren't as ominous as it may seem?

No implications or argument intended, I am genuinely curious because I have read accounts of cost prohibitive recreational shooting in the UK. Would you be able to offer a general idea of what a pound of powder, a box of a hundred primers, a bag of shot costs, and are there limitations or fees for their purchase? In the US, many retail stores offer these items and online purchases can be delivered to most home addresses.

Is it possible that restrictions and costs associated with use and ownership of the arm, as well as separately restrictions and costs associated with reloading components have something the do with the popularity of reloading?

In the US we have multiple issues with shooting old doubles. First is semi automatics are still a tremendous part of the shotgun market so ammo makers all must load towards that pressure level which is way too high for many fine doubles. Second is what I consider a dumbed down writer group for all guns. They use blanket statements instead of thinking and explaining the points and counterpoints of shooting old guns. So they just say don�t do it or have it checked out by some magic gunsmith like one look will tell all. Third we still have people who think the length of brass on a hull indicates pressure levels or safety to use. Fourth we have a maniac desire for velocity and what I call magnum anything. We now have 3 1/2� 12 semi autos just because we want more, faster and heavier hunting loads.

I bet many low pressure loads never get published because powder makers know that they will not cycle most semi automatics. We could be using many combinations that we don�t even consider. Instead you either reload with what powders are available or buy from a specialty loader like RST at premium prices.