doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT: gun deal scams

Happy Birthday, Karl and Ted, great photo of you and your dad. Gil

Thanks. Miss him.

Best,
Ted

Great picture of your dad Ted. Enjoyed that. I can see the resemblance.

It is said that God does not subtract the time from a man's life that is spent bird hunting!
Come October!
Karl

Yeah-- "From my cold, dead hands" Mister Foster-- RWTF

Betcha a box of RST 28 gauge hulls the dealer was Herschel C-- Bill Jaqua would have done it right with no BS about 3 days-- all Chaddick wanted was $-- Bill wanted, and got, customers for life. About 40 years ago, when he had just moved into the newer store out on the I-75 loop around Findlay, and was still downtown near the Old Courthouse, I sold him an Ithaca "Knick" 4E 34" barreled SBT-- with original trigger and also a release trigger--I avoid release triggers on shotguns, even though the late Gene Hill used them. The gun had been bored by Herb Orre for 16 yards, but was a bit challenging for doubles, and as I love older M12's, I accepted a 1948 Pigeon Grade Trap, std trigger, MC stock and 30" barrel marked "Imp.Mod. instead of the more commonly found Full choke- older style "duck bill" receiver extension, sandblasted non glare finish- and a nice check-- Bill was a gentleman from Day One- also Thad Scott in MS, and Don Criswell in CA-- never did any business with Felix Bedlan in NE, or Jack Puglisi in MN--RWTF

Don't suppose this story would qualify as a "scam", but my ignorance sure lead to a good old fashioned screw job. My job went away in 2004, and since my wife was a homemaker and my income was our sole support, it didn't take too many months to go thru my savings. In order to survive I began selling off my double gun collection, and one of those guns was a one-off special order LC Smith (was featured in the DGJ). As I was always a buyer and not a seller, I didn't know where to turn to find a buyer and I needed cash fast. So I called up an individual who had a reputation for selling Smith guns and asked what he thought the gun was worth, whether he thought he could sell the gun, and his fee for doing so. He thought the gun would bring about $15K, that he certainly thought he could sell the gun, and that his minimum fee was $1K. So I told him I'd certainly pay his $1K fee if he got $15K for the gun and arranged to meet him the next day(I obviously never heard the word "minimum"). He called the next day and said he had me a check for $19,5K; and I needed to give him a check for $4500. What; you said a thousand? No, he said; I told you I'd sell the gun for $15K and my fee was whatever I got above that amount. If he'd made that clear, there'd obviously have been no issue; but bottom line he got his $4500 fee and I made another big payment towards my Double Gun PhD. In retrospect it was MY FAULT for not making sure I had a clear understanding of the way he operated; but at the time I considered this guy my "friend", and a person I could trust. He also knew I was selling only because my circumstances gave me no other choice; and on top of that fact, his business has benefitted big time sales-wise from the information he's gotten as a result of my research efforts. I simply couldn't believe that a "friend" was taking advantage, but that was far from the final insult; at a vintage shoot three months later "my" Smith gun was on his table with a price tag of $55K, and the gun sold shortly afterwards. $55K! So how could a gun this guy told me he thought he could bet $15K for have appreciated to $55K in 90 days? If he gun was worth so much more than $15K, the right thing to have done was be honest regardless of whether he knew me or not; and I sure could have used the cash at the time. So...I've got very little use for this guy nowadays and wouldn't trust him as far I could throw him. And whether his dealings with me will hurt his business or not who knows; but I know quite a few Smith and other gun collectors. I've made sure they heard this story; some now hold him in contempt, but all hold him in suspicion. But in spite of the fact that this was a bad deal for me I, unlike this individual, still have my personal integrity; and who knows, I may eventually extract a little "revenge". While researching the A-3 Grade 20-bore Smith gun for the recent DGJ article, it just so happened that the second A-3 20-bore surfaced. This represented a most important find because the original gun had been rumored as destroyed, and a fake A-3 20-bore (a poorly made up and restored piece) had been circulating for years as the restored original. The actual value of this made up fake might be $5K on a good day; but before the original was discovered this dealer screwed over someone else and sold the fake at a large mid-western gun show for what I was told by a witness was an amount in excess of $100K. I'm hoping that the buyer of this fake learns, if he hasn't already, how badly he's been screwed. And I take that position because this particular dealer knows Smith guns as well as anyone in the county. This guy knew the gun he sold was a fake, and now that this gun is exposed for what it actually is, the unfortunate buyer has been permanently screwed as regards having an investment quality "rare" gun. So unless this individual advised the buyer in advance of the sale that the gun he was buying was a fake; then he deserves to have his reputation forever ruined, as well as whatever financial fallout may result. Sorry for the rant, but I do feel a bit better.

I hate hearing stories like that.

If any of you are contemplating the purchase of a Darne or Darne clone, please do some research before you plunk down your cash. Many, many times I have been the bearer of unwelcome news when someone came to me with their new to them Darne gun, which was sold and priced like a higher grade.

Some of the ads I see on the electronic gun sale sights are dishonest as hell.

Best,
Ted

i expect that most (if not all) of those who spend their time here are motivated by enthusiasm for the guns. but, i was told many years ago (by a wise old motorcycle mechanic) that the surest way to ruin a hobby was to do it for a living. and i suspect that in the upper reaches of the collectors gun world there's a tendency to start looking at them as merchandise...and money as a way of keeping score.

but i'll offer a story that illustrates that "what goes around...comes around".

i live about 100 miles east of herschel chaddick's place of business. probably about mid 90's there was a newspaper report detailing the theft of three "very valuable shotguns" from a man from terrell.

after asking around a bit, i learned that someone had called and asked many questions of chaddick re: particular shotguns he was offering for sale. in the end, he agreed to bring three of them for the buyers inspection to an agreed hotel. they were to meet "first thing on the morning", and chaddick got a room for the night before, and left the guns locked in the trunk of his cadillac.

upon arising, he discovered the trunk open...and the three guns gone the way of the passenger pigeons...

an old leon russell song included a verse that pleases me yet today..."don't let money turn you into a billfold"...

As the dealer I mentioned was from Cape Girardeau, MO it obviously was not H C. I am rather certain I did see in some publication where that dealer had passed on.