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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324 |
We know that the salts from a hot blue bath will attack rib joints and many of us have seen the results. But, a thought occurred to me ........ is it a given that there will always be hidden damage from an old hot blue? As I understand it there must be a pit, void, or some entryway into the area underneath the rib(s) for the salts to enter and remain after the bluing job. But, are there always pinholes or other places where the solder isn't sound?
I would think that, in the absence of weep holes, which all doubles don't have, a good, sound solder job could keep all the bluing solution outside. Hoping someone who has done a lot of barrel work on old doubles would comment.
Thanks, SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 910 Likes: 45
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 910 Likes: 45 |
The hot blue chemicals start the breakdown of the solder inside or out. It may take longer if it's only on the exterior, but it will fail. I saw a set of Perazzi barrels that a guy bought cheap because they were coming apart from a hot blue. Pretty sure those barrels were tight to start with.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,295 Likes: 564
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,295 Likes: 564 |
Silver solder & braze are completely unaffected by hot bluing. Most all modern production sxss & o/us barrels are hot blued. There are of course exceptions.
Soft solder is definitely affected by the bluing solution, but its probably more affected by the heat that is applied during the process that starts to break down the joint.
If ribs are properly laid.....there should absolutely be no need for weep holes, etc. weep holes are a good sign of a low grade soldering job where the manufacturer was worried about production vs quality. Ive had to have a few ribs relaid over the years, the worst jobs were on my American guns.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324 |
Thanks Mark and Dustin. So, once the breakdown begins, even on the outside, there is no stopping it? Hard for me to imagine, but I defer to experience.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Hot blue salts affect the lead in the solder joint. Lead-Free solders can be safely hot blued if they have as low or even a bit lower melt temp than the tin/lead solder. It's not the temperature that does them in.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324 |
So, can I rightly assume from this that there is no stopping the degradation of the lead solder joints once hot bluing has entered the picture? Rust can be halted, saltwater oxidation on aluminum can be halted, but a hot blued gun with soft soldered ribs is a "walking dead man", either sooner or later?
I don't want to sound argumentative. I just want to determine the facts.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,295 Likes: 564
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,295 Likes: 564 |
So, can I rightly assume from this that there is no stopping the degradation of the lead solder joints once hot bluing has entered the picture? Rust can be halted, saltwater oxidation on aluminum can be halted, but a hot blued gun with soft soldered ribs is a "walking dead man", either sooner or later?
I don't want to sound argumentative. I just want to determine the facts.
SRH That is a fact. The only thing you really cannot determine is when the rib will pop. Could be almost immediately, could be 5 or 10 years down the line.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,386 Likes: 1324 |
Thanks for everyone's input. Good information.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 405 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 405 Likes: 2 |
However, Lynx line hot blue salts used to add cyanide eggs to the salts when you use them to blue doubles. They said then it won't attack the solder. but the use of the cyanide was VERY deadly (use GOOD ventilation!!!!!)
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 224
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 224 |
Were gunsmiths all so ignorant that they weren't aware of "RULE #1"? I understand about PA trapshooters' gunsmiths, but ALL gunsmiths?
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