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Forums10
Topics38,883
Posts550,430
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Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,970 Likes: 887
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,970 Likes: 887 |
The Model 21 forend lug and ribs are occasionally known to become loose and need to be resoldered. Shooting the gun with a loose forend lug can cause other damage like kinked lower ribs. Give your forend lug the wiggle test. Occasionally, like several of them failing at any given Vintagers get together. 4140 is a difficult steel to solder, and there existed a well documented design flaw in the fore end lug attachment, which was compounded by the later beavertail. Repair of this is, well, spendy. That said, the old double gun habit is spendy. All of them need repairs sooner or later. There are 21s that have never failed. There are lots that have. You might want to have that looked into, by a pro. Best, Ted
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 293
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 293 |
Ted, I think you got it. More than likely the design flaw you refer to. Can I live with it if that is the case or is it going to lead to other problems down the road? I'm beginning to appreciate my english gun. BTW, I blame you guys for my acquisition of this gun. You would think from the prior post on this BB that you couldn't go wrong with a model 21. Like it was the best thing since sliced bread. This education is getting expensive.
Regards,
Max
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 179
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 179 |
I had to have to recoil lug resoldered on my 21.
It didnt seem to be "spendy"
A gunsmith by the name of David Yale in Yellowjacket Colorado did it for me, along with the required reblue of the barrels.
He did a remarkable job! and pretty quick turn around too.
Check the forearm lock also,, and make sure it "snaps" in place.
There is a mark on the little wheel that disappears and "snaps" when its locked in place.
Gooser
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 293
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 293 |
Blackdog, thanks for the advise. I had no clue to look for that.
Regards,
Max
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,205 Likes: 223
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,205 Likes: 223 |
Max, why would you ask Ted if there are going to be other problems down the road when I clearly implied (maybe more than implied) that the movement of the loose forend lug can result in kinked lower ribs? Regardless of Ted's negative general comments about Model 21 rib and lug reliability, he gave good advice about going to a pro. Yes, is the answer, more damage may be down the road, not the least of which is water intrusion past a rib separation. That results in rust that you can't see or get rid of. Blackdog mentions David Yale as someone who may be fixing these problems for less money than some others charge. Some guys charge up to two grand to resolder ribs and lugs on Model 21s. I, personally, would rather pay a bit less. Maybe Blackdog will tell us how much ex Maryland gunsmith, Mr. Yale, charges for this service.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 293
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 293 |
eightbore, I will recheck my gun this P.M. I do not think I have a loose lug. I was questioning whether or not the design flaw could be the issue as opposed to a loose rib. I hope that it is something as simple as not locking the rib in place as Blackdog mentioned. BTW locally, I had a smith resolder a lug on a l.c. simth for 75.00. A few months ago he resoldered the rib on another gun for 50.00. The problem with the 50 dollar rib job was that he had to do it over after I put about 100 shells thru the gun. I was advised by him and others that to resolder a rib correctly, it had to come completely off, the barrels cleaned and then resoldered. He was not going to do it. I contacted Briley at the time and I believe they indicated that the charge would be around 600 and I do not belive that included a reblue. At any rate, I opted to move the gun because of this issue.
Max
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 179
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 179 |
Max
Not locking the RIB in place but rather the forarm itself. On mine to remove the forearm you have to push up on the knurled wheel thats in the center of the forarm iron. Then to replace it and make sure its locked in place, you will see a part of that knurled wheel that is not knurled. That section of no knurl has to rotate till it disapears under the iron. When this happens you should hear a noticable "snap" or "click. Some guns may require a gentle tap with your open hand to have this happen.
Eighbore:
I didnt want to reply to your question of cost of a re-solder till I found my reciet from Mr.Yale.
The date on the reciet is Feb 24th of 01.
The total amount was $100.00 for the resolder (one HUNDRED dollars)
and 20.13 for shipping and 2000.00 insurence.
Prices surly have changed!
I hunt this gun,, and by no means is it a closet dweller! The repair has held up beatifully and the re-blue looks like its sposed to. The blue on the barrels is a rust blue, while the blue on the frame/action was "machined blued" on early guns.
On later guns the frame /reciever were Du-Lite blued, that gives the frame and trigger guard a deeper blacker blue! the barrels and Frame are sposed to look a little different!
If MR Yale is still doing restoration/ smithing work,, I highly reccomend him!!
Nice guy! owns Labradors too!! First class dude in my book!!
Gooser
Last edited by Blackdog; 09/17/07 03:46 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 179
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 179 |
DAVID YALE
SMT INC
14386 COUNTY ROAD U
YELLOW JACKET CO 81335
Telephone: 970-562-4225
Fax: 970-562-4226
Gooser
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 916 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 916 Likes: 1 |
eightbore, I will recheck my gun this P.M. I do not think I have a loose lug. I was questioning whether or not the design flaw could be the issue as opposed to a loose rib.
Max - The loose lug problem is the design flaw noted above.
Last edited by Gunflint Charlie; 09/17/07 05:41 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,205 Likes: 223
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,205 Likes: 223 |
The high price of most Model 21 barrel jobs is the removal and resoldering of both top and bottom ribs as well as reattachment of the lug and rebluing the barrels. I have a vent rib gun that needs it all. I think the gun gave good service until the ribs came a bit loose. It was built for a Winchester Pro in 1939 and probably hasn't been serviced since. I would assume it has a serious number of rounds through it.
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