doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com J. A. Scotcher

I have recently come across J. A. Scotcher shotguns. A google search hasn't come up with any information about this guy or his guns. Does anyone have some information or a link to information about him?

Thanks.

Tamid,
In 1871, William Powell & Son made a 12-b pinfire 'lifter' that was marked "J.A. Scotcher,
Maker, Bury, St.Edmunds." The client was J.A. Scotcher - who paid �15 - a price that reflected a dealer discount.

More information is available in Nigel Brown's book - British Gunmakers Volume 2.

Thanks Steve, I'm trying to determine if Scotcher made his own guns, purchased in white and/or purchased finished and put his name on them. If he was purchasing in white or finished it would be nice to know from whom he purchased them.

Is there really no information on J A Schotcher?

In the 27 November 1883 "The Bury and Norwich Post" at least John A. Scotcher advertised his "Gun and rifle manufactory".

Some info and e.g. an outside shot of the shop from 1919 at
http://www.stedmundsburychronicle.co.uk/guns/gunshome.htm

"John A Scotcher, Bury St Edmunds, 1865-1912

John Adam Scotcher, Gunmaker, had his shop at 17 Meat Market, which was near the Corn Exchange in Bury St Edmunds, from 1865 to 1912. Nowadays we know this address as being in the Traverse. Apparently this address had been a gunmakers for many years before Scotcher took it over.

Kelly's Directory of Suffolk for 1900 contained a reference to "Scotcher and Son, gun, pistol and rifle manufacturer, inventor of the 'invincible cartridge' 4 the Traverse."

By 1912 the business was owned by Henry R P Hodgson, whose daughter married H D Bennett in 1913. He ran it from 1916 until 1953.

Robert and Violet Clayton took over in 1953 until 1976, when it passed to their son Robert Clayton. In 1984 his son Jeremy Clayton joined as a partner. Within living memory the shop was re-named Clayton's Sports Shop, and it still sold a few guns until the 1980s. The Traverse lost a gunshop when Claytons moved out to 37 Abbeygate Street and began trading as Javelin."


From "Guns Directory" by John Walter:
"Scotcher John A. Scotcher & Son; Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk. The marks of this gunsmithing business, claiming origins as early as 1803, have been reported on shotgun ammunition made by Eley Brothers prior to the First World War, including �The Invincible�. John Adam Scotcher was listed at 17 Meat Market from 1863, expanding the business to include his son by 1885, but work ceased when the stock and goodwill was acquired by Henry Hodgson in 1913."


Internetgunclub.com has more if you feel inclined to spend your dosh:
https://www.internetgunclub.com/database...p;currentpage=1

"Information

Trade: Gun, rifle & pistol maker

Dates: 1860?-1916

Notes:

John Adams Scotcher was born in 1827 in Great Yeldham, Essex. Nothing is known of his early life but he appears to have been apprenticed or worked in Birmingham.

Reportedly, John claimed his business was established in 1803, but this date appears to refer to the date William Young established himself as a gun maker at 17 Meat Market, Bury St Edmunds. William was recorded at 17 Meat Market only from 1810 to 1838, from 1838 to 1858 he was recorded at Risbygate Street.

It appears that John le...[EXTRACT ENDS]"


According to the 26 March 1864 "The Morning Post from London"

"John Adam Scotcher was charged with the manslaughter of Caroline Scotcher, at Bury St. Edmund's."

Markus

Hill Rod & Gun sold a J.A. Scotcher gun years ago. From their archives description:

"JA SCOTCHER, ST EDMUNDS, BLNE, 2 1/2", 30" choked Mod/Full. 14 5/8" well figured wood to horn butt plate. Action retains weak to moderate case colors and is of exceptional high quality being a Webley Screw grip with intercepting sears and disc set strikers. Engraving is fine and delicate. 6 1/2lbs. According to Boothroyds Directory only 9 Scotcher guns are known to exist."

The rib of my 8-Bore hammer gun is marked "J A Scotcher Maker Bury St Edmunds". J A Scotcher appears on both locks and JAS stamped here and there. It's nitro-proved in Birmingham, for 2,1/2oz, marked for 3" chambers, marked "3/4 choke" on both barrels, also "not for ball". Jones underlever, 32" fluid steel barrels and fairly nice bores. For the past 70 years of it's life it's apparently been with one family in New Zealand. The ammunition that came with it was all BB and SSG.

.

As a follow up to yesterday, this shotgun's barrels are marked NOT FOR BALL. According to A Baron Englelhardt, in Proof in Gt Britain, Gun Digest 8th Ed. 1954, the 1887 rules “abolished that given in the Regulations of 1875 calling for the words NOT FOR BALL on choke-bored barrels and thus gives a guide for dating English shotguns”. Next to NOT FOR BALL is a crown over a view mark and the proof marks "8B 10M" meaning 8-bore (or gauge) and 10-bore at the muzzle. This also seems to date after the October 11, 1875 "new rules and regulations".

There is also on the flats a mark, a crown over R. This points to it being reproved after 1925. It seems to have also been nitro proved under the 1904 proof rules with NP, BV, BP and R each under a crown. (Nitro Proof mark, 1904-1955) (Birmingham View mark, 1904-1955) (Birmingham Definitive Proof mark, 1904-) (R = Reproof 1925-). The words "NITRO PROOF 2,1/2" (oz) are also 1904-proof marks.

John Adam Scotcher was joined by his son in 1885 and later shotguns were marked up JA Scotcher and Son. So this shotgun would seem to pre-date that and was probably made somewhere between 1875 and 1885.

Gun Digest published a Gun Digest Treasury in 1961 covering 1945-1960. This reprints each of A Baron Engelhardt's proof articles for Europe, Gt Britain, France and Belgium, modern Germany, Spain, Italy, Austro-Hungary, Modern France and post-war Germany.

Kiwi, a lot of us use Diggory's chart for UK proof marks. Easiest to use. Remember that "Not for Ball" came in in 1875 after Greener's "invention" of choke boring was publicized in December 1874 and showed to work in trials in spring 1875. However, if a shotgun were made without choke subsequent to 1875 it would not have the stamp and most shotguns continued to be cylinder bore up to around 1880.