doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Royal Gun Company (Wheeling, WVA)

I came across a 12ga of this maker today at a show that looked very interesting. The back edge of the boxlock was Hollenbeck-esque, but arced rather than angled. I believe the serial number was I(or 1)993. It was straight gripped with a very pretty piece of blondish wood streaked with heavy grain. The barrels were 26" with no choke. Engraved with flying grouse. Deeply sculpted balls. There could have been some decent case left under what I think was thick grime. I wish I could have inspected further, but the seller got quite put off by my inquiry to disassemble the gun. As I walked away I actually saw him remove the gun from the table and case it underneath. Sorry no price.

I saw probably a 95% SW in 12ga that was probably the best one I have seen. $999. Couldn't make the trade I offered.

Lastly, a Grade 2, damascus Flues in 16ga. Mostly without finishes. Barrels were dented toward the muzzle. I stayed away even at $375.

I would be interested to know what anyone thought about the Royal. I would have like to spent some more time with that gun and someone who could have assessed it better than I.

Bird

A Beautiful A&D Boxlock...25 1/8 inch barrels (cut at both ends), castelated/clover type fences (like some LC Smiths), original checkered side panels, Deeley type fore end latch, adjustable sears, marked Royal, and Wheeling W, Va...

I'm damn glad that you saw it, because I've been told right here at this system that Royal only made drillings and single shots.

As for the seller...I don't know his real name, but others call him "Hook"...don't let his "put off" behavior sway your inspection techniques...he has a personality like a jar of butt holes...no matter which side that you look at...
He did his best to convince me that I was looking at a Bowling Green Lefever boxlock...and he couldn't see the crack that ran half way through the wrist, even though three guys pointed it out...

Oh yeah... there was a Feb 13 1900 patent date on the action flats, which correspondes to Frank Hollenbeck's patent 643601 for the top hook lock up mechanism, which incidentally, was issued to Hollenbeck while residing in Baltimore MD.

I can't remember the dates of operation for Baltimore Arms and Royal at the moment...I'll have to look it up unless someone else knows off hand...

Check "Double Gun Journal" for Three Barrel Gun Company in Vol. 10 Issue 1 & 3 and Vol. 13 Issue 1 & 2, I think. Gulf Coast Guns, or something like it, has one that has been assembled by parts. I'll find the site: http://www.gulfcoastguns.com/gun_inventory.htm - # 1124.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

At one time the Royal Gun Company offered their double barrel with Krupp barrels. Their catalog lists 4 models from 101 for $50 through 104 for $150. I have seen about 4 of these guns over the years, but never a high grade one. Here's a copy of the front of their flyer.

I scrutinized the fluid steel tubes looking for LLH or Krupp touchmarks...there were none that I could find...

I loooked over gulfcoasts inventory superficially, and noted possible mistakes here and there. Like Lovena is listed as Belgian. I thought Lovena was Czech (maybe they imported this one) and Manufacture Liegeoise as being sold through Jennson. Jennson was tied to Pieper, and ML was their primary competitor. It leaves me wondering just how accurate Golf Coast is in their descriptions.

I wrote an article about the gun printed in the DGJ about 10 to 12 years ago. I am not home so can't be more specific. It should be listed in the Reader Index.

The only gun I was referring to was the #1124. I inquired about it at a gunshow and was told that it was assembled in Florida from parts acquired thru an inheritance, as the story goes. If they knew better, then I believe they would post better.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Robert,

I wish I had been there to discuss it with you. Did you notice how thin the barrel walls were at the muzzle? My cheap choke gauge dropped right in past 12ga IC. I didn't get to measure the barrel length, but only guessed they were 26". So they were most likely cut, but from what length? They must have been cut many inches to completely remove the choke. That gun seemed like a "brush" gun with the straight grip, grouse engraving and choke bore.

I did measure the LOP and it measured 14" from the front trigger. Did you notice how much light you could see through the stock head?

Did you feel there were decent colors under some thick tacky grime on the action? If not what was I seeing there?

Thanks for the additional observations and assessment of the seller.

I would have bought the Ithaca.

Jeff,
The lettering was either mis-stamped or half buffed away, the barrel flats were blued silly which is often an indication that the barrels were re-blued. The action looked charcoal blued, like a Colt pistol, so yes some colors could be seen. Charcoal blue and color case hardening are very similar in that they are both packed then fired. It's another forgotten process that needs to be re-examined. Surely the Colt collectors have kept that finishing process alive.
As for the cutting of how many inches...the barrels were nearly touching at the muzzle, close enough to pass, but when I laid my 26" LC Smith next to it, the Royal barrels were 3/4" shy at least. That's how I came up with 25 1/4" for the barrel length.
Those castelated fences and engraving look identical to engraving found on other NYS doubles such as LC Smith's (of Syracuse)and Syracuse Lefevers...so, was it infact engraved by a NYS engraver? Was it still at the engravers when Royal went belly-up, awaiting payment upon completion? Did the Royal skilled tradesmen, who travelled to Wheeling from Syracuse, bring it back to Syracuse when Royal production ceased. This was the most common form of wage collateral at the time. Unfinished guns represented somebody's lost wages. In the case of Newton Rifle Corp., often parts turn up in Utica NY because when Newton went under, many skilled employees who were brought in from Utica (Savage) returned to Utica with their parts, as wage collateral. I'm of the mind that Hollenbeck himself travelled with receiver forgings...just look at the similarities between Baltimore Arms, Syracuse Arms, and Royal Arms...

That gun raises far more questions than it answers, and that's what I liked most about the gun. Identifying the engraver will/may answer some questions.