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Forums10
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Most Online1,344 Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,466 Likes: 487
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,466 Likes: 487 |
battle, I said that the weep holes in the bottom rib was a sign that the barrels were hot salts blued. But mostly, my opinion was mostly based upon the pictures. The pics here are too small, but if you click on my link to the GunBroker auction, and enlarge the pics there, it appears unlikely that these barrels were slow rust blued. Some of the pics have good enough resolution when enlarged to make a good judgement call, lacking the gun in hand.
For one thing, the level of polish and gloss is above what most practitioners of slow rust blue can accomplish. The late PA24 was able to do it, and beyond. But most guys can't maintain better than a 320 grit level of polish with slow rust. I also see the same with the sideplates, safety slide, trigger guard, and screws. Some guys do drill weep holes during rust bluing, but it is more common with hot salts bluing.
And whoever screwed up this gun obviously did not know or care about proper and correct finishes and materials. So all the more reason to suspect a quick dunk in the hot salts tanks.
This gun was originally listed for a buy it now price of $10,000, which, along with the totally inaccurate description, was ridiculous. I saved it in my watch list when it was finally listed for auction. I thought it might be worthwhile as a parts gun if it went cheap enough. It would have been a much better deal at the price it sold for if it was in worn, but unmolested condition. The bad refinishing hurt the value considerably.
Sometimes the truth can hurt. But this forum is supposed to be the best there is for correct information, not leading people astray. If we just pat people on the head and tell them they did good when they ask a question about a gun they bought, then they will never learn from their mistakes. This should be a lesson to the OP and others. Ask questions and do your homework before you buy. I didn't offer my information and advice to hurt anyone's feelings.
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 355 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 355 Likes: 11 |
I feel bad that this gets aired out somewhat 'in the face' of the buyer. Thankfully, for the price he paid, it's ok. But I have to agree with Keith about 'setting the record straight.' If special interest forums are to have any future value to people, they have to reflect the truth. How would you feel, if your nephew decided to drop thousands of dollars on a bench grinder-buffed gun after reading some BS about rare "silver breech" LC Smiths on a gun forum? We need to gently call a thing what it is.
The buyer bought a handsome gun...a fun shooter for the price. But if someone would have dropped 10k on that gun?!?!?
That seller...whoever he is...is either an abject moron, or a full-fledged con artist.
BTW, there is another "Lefever" on GB. Well, an Ithaca trap gun.
The gun is literally RED.
The seller told an LACA member (shared on that forum) that it's "a special order Syracuse gun." Is the seller a half-wit? Is he a con? Or is he just so hope filled for a big sale, that his judgement is clouded by desire?
Bottom line, even if it grates on a buyer to hear it, I think we owe it to future thread readers to call things out. If we're wrong, later commentors will correct us...as well they should.
NDG
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,190 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,190 Likes: 15 |
"Bottom line, even if it grates on a buyer to hear it, I think we owe it to future thread readers to call things out. If we're wrong, later commentors will correct us...as well they should."
Got to agree; if we can't call it like it is on gun listings we know are designed to absolutely screw some misguided buyer, then who can or will? In my recent DGJ article on the two recently discovered A-3 Smith 20-bore guns (the only two such guns in the records) I pointed out that a fake A-3 twenty had been floating around and misrepresented as a restored original for more that 20 years; and I'm convinced that every dealer hawking that gun during that period knew it was a fake, yet represented it as restored. I was told by someone who claimed to have witnessed the transaction that the gun was sold in Tulsa for $105K during the time I was writing the story. It was sold by a dealer who represents himself as a Smith gun expert, and I know he knew the gun was a fake. During my research I learned that the gun had sold at least twice during that 20 year period, once in the neighborhood of $70K and again for $90K; but I wonder how the person who paid $105K is going to react when he learns his gun is only a $5-6K upgrade?
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 331 Likes: 84
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 331 Likes: 84 |
I hadn't seen the subject gun listed for $10k before I bid on it. I wouldn't have bid any much more for this one than I did. I've been looking for a shooter Lefever for awhile but really didn't want to pay much for one. I have no intention of being a Lefever collector.
This one I look at as a "Resto-Mod" vintage car would be. Some guys want all numbers matching cars. Other guys make modern changes to the cars for power, safety or color. To each his own.
This gun is actually quite handsome for a shooter. It will fit what I was looking for. Nice to have two barrels and pretty wood. I like the engraving. I don't feel bad about comments made by anyone about it. I would want to hear the truth. That's why I asked. I don't think I'll loose money selling it if I do. In the time I have it I will break targets and kill a few birds.
With a fine gun on his arm, a man becomes a sporting gentleman, both on the field and off.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 749 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 749 Likes: 16 |
As usual I'm late to the conversation, BUT I think you got a terrific bargain. There is nothing about this gun that can't be corrected if you choose.
Doug Mann
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 331 Likes: 84
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 331 Likes: 84 |
As usual I'm late to the conversation, BUT I think you got a terrific bargain. There is nothing about this gun that can't be corrected if you choose. Great, thanks!
With a fine gun on his arm, a man becomes a sporting gentleman, both on the field and off.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,466 Likes: 487
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,466 Likes: 487 |
As usual I'm late to the conversation, BUT I think you got a terrific bargain. There is nothing about this gun that can't be corrected if you choose. I'm curious how you could call this gun a terrific bargain??? The only high points are that I assume the barrels have not been cut, and the engraving has not been obliterated. What would it cost, in addition to the $1700 already spent, to restock it in proper E grade level English walnut, strip the incorrect blue (assuming there is no damage to the solder joints), do a correct slow rust blue on both barrel sets, and other parts, then do a correct bone charcoal case hardening job, etc.? Then when you added all of that up, how would it compare to the cost to purchase a high condition 2 barrel set E grade Lefever... that has not had collector value damaged by refinishing? An E grade is desirable, but it is not an Optimus. With enough time and enough money, I suppose you could rebuild any jet airplane that crashed, so long as there were a few intact parts. But nobody even tries, and for good reason. There comes a point where enough damage is done that repairs no longer make economic sense. I also do not think that duxdog would lose much money if he sold it now. There were 21 bids that drove it to where it sold, and numerous bidders who did not know or did not care that the description was totally inaccurate. If the solder joints do not fail, he can use it and probably lose no more value than if he bought a brand new shotgun. However, that might also involve using the same inaccurate description to gin up bidding interest. But if the solder joints fail, it could be a big money pit very quickly.
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 749 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 749 Likes: 16 |
Sure! Going beyond the obvious wrong choice of wood which looks to have plenty left if you want to reshape to look more proper. I looked at the condition of the engraving, top rib matting and the breech face. The breech face was for all intents perfect with a very few marks on it as was the action flat. I know a skilled laser welder could fill in pts etc. and put some minor marks in it but the cost would have been, to say the least, prohibitive. Actually it looks like it was a closet queen in an earlier life. I'd probably more curious about the bore conditions, wall thickness etc. but that's just me.
Doug Mann
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 104 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 104 Likes: 7 |
I’ve always been curious about the hot blue issue on these older side by sides. Is a slow deterioration, till years later they fall apart, is it certain doom or do some guns survive the process?
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,081 Likes: 462
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,081 Likes: 462 |
As long as you get to them before too much corrosion happens between the ribs you can pull it apart, clean everything well and relay the ribs. I have done quite a few, it is a big job and costly but worth it for some guns.
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