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I stand corrected on antique imports

Jon is correct on the pre 1898 firearms as far as the ATF. A few years ago when I had my FFL/Importer permit I had a run in with a customs official at the Anchorage department. He kept telling me my 1880's shotguns were modern firearms since they would take modern ammo. He was removing the "or" instead of "and" between the 3 paragraphs that the ATF use to describe the conditions for antique status. I finally phoned the ATF and had the agent explain to the custom's official that he was doing it wrong for the last 20 years. He was not a happy camper. Made another official finish my paperwork to release them.

So far I have used importers to bring in firearms from Holts and other UK auction houses. Regarding pre-1898 firearms, I had read that you should file with the ATF to import it, so they could you correspondence showing they did not need to issue an import permit for that particular firearm...not because that was legally necessary, but so you could use that to educate folks here in the USA who didn't know the law and their jobs well.

Jon and the group here know their stuff. I sent some Martini Henry's to the USA from Afghanistan 15 years ago and recall the process. But to confirm, here is my correspondence with ATF on the issue:

-- From the regulation ATF sent, however, it looks as if any centerfire or rimfire gun, no matter the date of manufacture, would have to get ATF approval. That's what I had to do with the Martini-Henry's. That was fairly straight forward; I sent a form filled out with photos of the gun to ATF. Within a month I got a replay back enabling me to mail therm through the APO. I have sent an email to ATF to confirm this.

Query: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Sirs: I am considering buying a SxS shotgun from Holt’s auction in UK. It is an E,M Reilly 16 gauge made in 1886. Holt’s now can handle exports to the USA from UK including obtaining export permits from the UK. I do not have an FFL and in the past have used a firearms importer in Colorado.

However, I am wondering since the shotgun is pre 1898 whether Holt's could send it via Fedex directly to me in northern Virginia? It so are there import duties? How would these be paid? If necessary I could get an importer again if I opt to buy the gun but would like to avoid the expense and inevitable delays.

Thanks for your assistance.

ATF Answer: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Good morning,

If the firearm is an antique per the ATF Federal Firearm Regulations, a permit is not required from our office. You will likely need to prove to CBP that the firearm is, in fact, an antique.

As it pertains to dues and how these are paid; those are questions for CBP.



Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives Imports Branch
304-616-4550
imports@atf.gov

Do you guys try to do the import process on antiques yourself, or use a service like G&H? There's a gun at the coming Holt's auction that's just asking me to bid on it at the moment...

Direct from Customs website.

https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-210?language=en_US
Key point from there and BATF.
Under the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, any cartridge firearm made in or before 1898 ("pre-1899") is classified as an "antique", and is generally outside of Federal jurisdiction, as administered and enforced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).

For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Antique Firearms” means any firearm not intended or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system ...

Antique firearms, which include weapons manufactured before 1899, are not subject to National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) checks.

What is the 1898 gun rule?
Image result
Under federal law, an antique firearm is any firearm produced before 1898. The federal definition also includes replicas, which means the firearm may have been manufactured recently, but if it was manufactured to exactly duplicate a firearm produced before 1898, it is still considered an antique firearm.Mar 29, 2019

If the firearm you intend to import is an antique firearm and was manufactured in or before 1898, you or an FFL do not have to submit an ATF Form 6 to ATF; however, you must be able to prove to CBP that it was manufactured during that period.Nov 2, 2020

A lot of misinformation out there. If you do not want to deal with it yourself then use an importer. If you want to deal with it ,and have the time, then educate yourself and be prepared to educate those you are dealing with. Just be aware that some people will not let facts get into the way of their ignorance. I love those people, and have no problem going over their heads until I find a person who can read and understand that the law is the law, and hurt feeling of what they think ought to be is nothing I care about. Funny thing is once they have that happen, then the next time they just want things to go away and deal with it quickly.

Any firearm manufactured before 1898 is the operative term. You must be able to show it was produced before that date. People get distracted by the Muzzle loader aspect but any gun built before 1898 is a "non-gun". It also is an antique and duties should be very minimal. Any replica, that is true to original design, is an non gun. Any muzzle loader, is a non gun. Do be aware your state or local laws may be more restrictive. Print out the relevant federal statues and take them with you. I have had people claim I am wrong, hand them the papers work, they still claim I am wrong and then have them look it up themselves. At that point they read it several times and then agree they were wrong. The one person, who refused to accept facts, got a rude lecture from her bosses, boss. I wont go into details but Hell will freeze over, twice, before she sends me a Christmas card. Learn the facts, follow the law, be polite, be patient, share things more than be confrontational and most people will accept things and work with you. Nobody wakes up and decides today is the day i will screw with an imported gun want to be owner. It is more like, thank God it is Friday. Try not to ruin it for them. Those who get educated almost always are easier the next time, so far.

Jon has the experience. Per the posted regulation anything before 1898 is not a gun. But some general in Afghanistan decided to require all Sniders and Martini-Henry's be submitted to ATF to their great dismay. Note the operative sentence: "(A) any firearm (including any. . .)" That ANY FIREARM looks to include anything pre 1898.

I will say that for a few years early in the Afghan adventure, the Army Adjutant General in Kabul was letting soldiers ship back SMLE Enfields because "they were designed in 1880's). That stopped; but I still was able to ship a 1901 Long Lee.

I do not plan to buy another gun but you never know. I just wanted to understand whether Holt's could now ship it directly to the customer without using an "importer" if the gun is pre 1898. I'd probably give it a try.

Again back to corresponding with ATF:
Query:. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Thanks for your information. Just to confirm, if a shotgun or rifle is centerfire or riimfire and can shoot modern readaby available ammunition, it will have to get ATF approval before shipping, is that correct? (I recall sending an 1877 UK made Martini-Henry rifle home from Afghanistan using the APO about 13 years ago; I had to fill out a form, attach pictures and mail it to ATF. I got a response back in about three weeks which enabled me to mail it.

Here is the gun I'm interested in: It is a 16 gauge EM Reilly shotgun with a Serial Number historically and firmly dating it to 1886. I assume that since it has 2 1/2" chambers and is a centerfire and since 2 1/2" shells are readable in the US, that I would have to follow a similar track to import the gun. Thanks for your confirmation:

ATF Response: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Good afternoon,

Our office cannot make classifications. If you would like a classification on the firearm to ensure its antique status, please contact the Firearms Technology Industry Services Branch (FTISB).

Please note that the Federal Firearms Regulations states “The term “antique firearm” means— (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or”…

English, such a simple language that is so easily confused by those who read it. Worse are those who do not understand and, or or, and the value of a comma. Like the classic lines. Lets eat grandma and Let's eat, grandma. It does help to have things printed but even then slow in the head people will struggle to read and comprehend what it says beyond what they think it says.

I think we all have a grasp of what importing involves. I certainly got an education the first time I had to deal with importing pre 1898 guns. But learn, understand the law, get things printed as clearly as possible, with easily verified web sites to confirm your facts, be pleasant about things because most people do not know and are trying to safeguard their jobs and do not be afraid to engage a higher level of authority. Once you do it, then the second time is easier and if you are lucky the person who you dealt with, will recall things and make it so much simpler. Or you will at least have all your ducks in a row, or in this case facts, for another adventure in the wonderful world of bureaucracy.

This saved my day a while back. Copied directly from the Customs and Border Protection web site.

"If the firearm you intend to import is an antique firearm and was manufactured in or before 1898, you or an FFL do not have to submit an ATF Form 6 to ATF; however, you must be able to prove to CBP that it was manufactured during that period. If you ship the antique firearm, be sure the package includes the required documentation. CBP will accept a certificate of authenticity or bill of sale with the year the antique firearm was manufactured as proof of age. If the firearm was manufactured after 1898, an FFL must submit the ATF Form 6 to ATF for authorization to import the firearm."

"If the antique firearm is at least 100 years old or more and you can provide proof of age, the firearm will be eligible for duty-free treatment under the antique provision in the Harmonized Tariff Schedule."

If your gun is pre 1898 it should be duty free as well a legal to import. But if you do not bring up the antique status they will collect duty on it. Been there and paid that. Only once but it still bugs me.

Thanks Jon and if I were to buy something, everything said here is a perfect primer.

Now the problem for a Reilly (or just about any 1800's gun): CBP will accept a certificate of authenticity or bill of sale with the year the antique firearm was manufactured as proof of age.

There is unlikely to be a "certificate of authenticity" or "bill of sale" for most of these guns (unless auction houses could be persuaded to issue one). There are, however, academic studies and extant records on many makers (Henry, Purdey, William Evans, Pape, H&H,
Church, etc) which probably could help authenticate the age.

For a lot of English guns though there is nothing except efforts by individuals to bring back semblance of order to history. Blanch has the efforts of Toby Barclay. For Reilly, though, there is only my own research (which has now been accepted and is being used to date Reilly's by most major auction houses). There is this version in Vintagegunjournal from 2020. which might work:
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/dating-your-reilly-gun-or-rifle

However, it is now out of date. I'll need to publish something with an updated dating list so Reilly buyers have something to present to customs. Working on it.

All the auction houses provide an invoice, as do retailers, individuals can hand write a bill of sale. You can't import or export without the invoice these days, Customs requires it on both sides now.