doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1915 Flues Opens hard

I’ve a 1915 grade 1 1/2 Flues in 12 gauge. I’ve shot it on
2 occasions recently, 50 rounds each time.

Periodically during each of the 2 - 25 rounds the gun
doesn’t want to break open, at least not easily.

I know insufficient or misplaced grease will cause this
and I’m checking that out. But I was wondering if
anyone might have some thoughts on this?

It’s not consistent. It seems to be possibly heat related
as I’ll shoot several rounds and it will all of a sudden
not open or open very hard.

It may do this a couple times then be fine the
rest of the round.

I was thinking maybe the pins not retracting?
But I see no signs of them dragging on the spent
hull base.

There is a small uniform ‘divot’ on the base of the
Extractor, but it’s on each barrel and exactly
uniform on each side and it actually looks to
be there by design.

I’ve had the gun about 8 months only and
The first thing I did was take it to ‘Les’ at
Diamond Gun in Ithaca Ny and he went
completely through it and said he found no issues.

I’m shooting VERY light loads of my own of 7/8 oz
With chamber pressure about 6800 at 1150 fps.


Appreciate any thought or experiences anyone may have
on this.

Thx in advance

Check that your sizing die is fully resizing the "brass" down to the rim. Also, clean with steel wool and lube the rear portion of the chamber area.

Been there, done that, (and a whole lot more) with my 1914 Flues. My solution was what LW recommended above.

And for me since I already had another double that required its reloads to go through my MEC SuperSizer I just starting pulling the Flues ammo from the SuperSized shelf. End of issue.

If you remove your forend, does the shotgun open easily?

Well, went and shot two rounds of 25 tonight in my 5 stand league with it.
I had gone through the gun this weekend and made sure all the contact points were sufficiently greased, to rule that out

On the very first station it happened on the second set of birds
Took the forend off and it still wouldn't open.

It did this about twice in each round of 25.

After taking a closer look at the fired casings that were in the gun when I got home, I can now see that it appears
that the pins are in fact dragging on the primer at times(in fact quite frequently). I can see a definite 'divot' in the edge of the primer
if I look closely. IT's not just the round hole the firing pin puts in, but on the edge of that pin mark, is this 'divot'

I also now noticed that after I fire the gun, every once in a while I'd see one of the firing pins sticking out, after I opened the gun.
So taking this one step further, I could push them in with my finger very easily.

If when I open the gun and I don't see the pins sticking out at all, if I put the butt end up, and give it a little 'shake', the firing pins
stick out again

So I'm pretty sure this is the issue.

Thanks for the input and ideas.

Now.... what to do with it? Bummer

CD, before I did anything else, I’d get a box of new light factory loads and shoot another round. If your problem disappears, it’s your resizing die adjustment.

Also some primers are better tolerated than others. Several friends have K-80 which do not like Cheddite primers. One Browning gun I know pierces them with regularity. Different factory ammo will get you to different primers.

Yes, if you can get a few factory loaded rounds each of Winchester and Remington. Try those.

Winchester's are softer and the gun may not open easily after shooting.

Remington primers on the other hand are harder and may open easier after shooting.

I have a Fox double that likes Remingtons but not Winchesters.

Jolly

Ok. Thanks for the tips. Good points. I guess I'll try to find some really light factory loads.

I am using Cheddite primers

Do any of you happen to know if these pins on the Flues should behave that way?
Are they free floating?
Or should there be a spring that holds them back a bit.

As I said, If I tip the gun but stock up, both of the pins will come out a bit (far enough to fire a shell).
I cannot pull them any furhter, but I can push them back in really easy(or tip the gun back muzzle up and a slight tap and they
fall right back into place.

The FP's are separate from the hammers in the Flues. They are not in themselves spring loaded. They just slide back and forth it's travel limited by a set screw and a slot on the FP itself.

But, upon firing, the hammer(s) are down fully and under mainspring tension in the fired position. So that tension is also applied to the firing pin(s) when in the fired position.
It is in that position (fired) that you are trying to open the gun up.

What is supposed to happen is that opun the very first motion of the bbls tipping downward is tht the hammer(s) are supposed to retract as well.
That instant retraction releases the spring tension upon the fireing pins which are buried into the fired primers.
With that little bit of release and that it continues to be more released tension as the hammers are cocked and back away from the firing pins by the bbls opening,,the firing pin tips are free to be pushed back as well by the fired case as it is lifted upwards with the bbl.
The case doesn't have the firing pin tip snagged into it's primer so the gun opens easily.

The issue when this doesn't happen as designed is usually the timing of the cocking linkage. It gets worn on a 100+yr old gun and thaat immediate lift to the hammer is delayed.
The bbls can open quite a bit before the cocking linkage engages and starts to lift/cock the hammer.
The result is the firing pin/tip is still embedded into the primer of the fired case and under spring tension from the hammer that has not yet recocked at the same time as you are rotating
the bbls open. The result is the FP is dragged across the primer and off of the case. The gun hard to open. Some can be an 'Over the Knee' to open situation especially if both bbls are fired.

Harder primers can seem to cure the probl. But they just avoid the FP sinking into the primer too deep when fired. So they don't drag as much and the gun opens easily.
The mechanical problem is still there.