doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Dating a Ronchard Cizeron Saint Etienne shotgun

Ed asked my opinion on dating this gun since the advertiser seemed confused:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/995578993

Here are the key photos of barrel and barrel flats:



Here is my response. Welcome additions or corrections:

-- Boxlock; artisanal Saint-Etienne maker; barrels by Ronchard-Cizeren. (Owner says the gun dates from c1868 to 1878. Since A&D didn't patent the Boxlock until fall 1875 or publicize it until spring 1877, and there is no patent use number on the gun, this claim is preposterous.
-- 16 gauge 2 1/2" chambers in standard French barrel length.
-- Choked barrels (choke unknown). Rectifie *LOY* or LDY - LOY would have been the barrel borer. Don't know who that is.
-- 6.5 cm chamber means the gun was made between summer 1889 and summer 1912.
-- Proofed for PT means made after 1900.
-- Ronchard Cizeron, well known barrel maker in Saint Etienne (running bunny logo) died in 1899. In July 1901 his widow amalgamated Cizeron with Didier & cie (founded by Jean Pierre Didier) with Madam Ronchard as primary stock holder. The trademark press with "acier comprimé" (compressed steel) was registered in August 1904 by Didier & Cie.

So the gun was made between August 1904 and summer 1912.

To further refine it, The gold medal stamp (Medaille d'or) could refer to several gold medals won by Didier & Cie from 1905-1911 - Liège (1905), London (1908), Brussels (1910), Turin (1911). And Jean Didier-Drevet, (father of Jean Pierre Didier), who invented the very light barrel "cannon plume" in 1899, won a gold medal in 1855 in Paris so it could conceivably refer to that too.

The genealogy and confused and incestuous intertwining of the families of gun-makers, makes getting the history of these companies a bit difficult - even French sites occasionally contradict themselves. But the gun is not rare.

Waiting for FAB500 input.

this thang has more stamps than a 30 day used euro railway pass...

You'll sometimes find a French gun that features the equivalent of a short French novel.

so long as hit aint madame boveay, which is ah long, long french novel, which is boring, boring...

but den ah recently saw the recent movie "Emma Bovary"...not bad...kept my attention...which aint easy...