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That would be a semi auto edd

ALL guns have a safety position where the gun will fire when the trigger is pulled. What is your point? I am a bit reluctant to reply to this poster. We've been dealing with him too long.

bore, i too gave up replying to its nonsense...

best thing we can awl do is to just ignore hit...

Preacher, how is it that you feel morally justified in admonishing JR over a simple case of mistaken identity, while at the same time continuing your frequent denigration of Pine Creek Dave for his erroneous assumptions about L.C. Smith shotguns? Was your latest personal attack on him really necessary... especially when you have repeatedly preached about personal attacks???

I think a lot of knowledgeable guys here would take serious exception to this statement below. I also know that gunsmiths and gunmakers such as Dewey Vicknair would disagree completely, and perhaps feel it is no more rooted in fact or reality than some of Pine Creek Dave's thoughts:


I own several L.C. Smith guns and was once enamored with them until I knew better. They do the job and some are very nice looking. And neither my post-1913 12 or 20 ga. Ideal Grades nor my 16 ga. Field Grade Featherweight have cracks behind the lockplates. But they, and my pre-1913 Smith's, have several design flaws and weaknesses that go beyond the fact that they are not assembled with the same care as a quality English gun.

One thing that seems quite evident is that Pine Creek Dave probably owns more L.C. Smith guns than you, and also has more actual hands-on experience with them. From your statements here, it appears that you own one L.C. Smith O Grade Damascus shotgun that has barrels which are honed to .016" thick at 14" from the breech. Other than that, it appears you merely have an impressive collection of pictures of guns, and a bunch of old advertising copy... yet you pose as an expert. So when you say Pine Creek Dave is not "fixed in reality", are you perhaps simply projecting your own deficiencies and maybe some shotgun envy too?

Dave Buehler has his reasons for his creative fiction, which apparently has become his reality.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=520616&page=3
I have communicated with Dave privately and on forums several times offering to ask Dr. Jim to research the SNs of his guns to confirm the original specifications, and he has declined to do so. If you will send me the SNs of your Smiths, I'll do the same for you.

Dave Williamson has established his credibility, and he should not be confused with Buehler (which John did in the past). His opinions are his own, as are yours.

In that I wrote the FAQs for the LCSCA (with the contributions of David, Tom Archer, Dr Jim and many others) I believe I have some credibility regarding Smith guns also
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=274&club_id=43784

BTW: My self worth has 0 connection to my possessions William, and I have different priorities now. I'm happy with my few guns, which should be the point of any collection, and enjoy shooting recreational skeet regularly with my lowly 1906 No. 00, which has no cracks in the head of the stock. Dan Lammers tuned the (crude ) locks and a crisp let off is a thing of wonder. It has gotten slighly loose, cured with a pepsi can shim
I'll be shooting this morning with BorderBill using an 870

Ed: I've never personally seen an Ithaca with the 3-position safety, but since both the Ithacas and the Elsies use Alexander Brown's rotary bolt design I wouldn't be surprise to see that they share that option as well.

I shouldn't but I will. First thing JR could have read on the left side where my information is and my name, mistake on his part no big deal. Second, I referred to the Syracuse L.C. Smith's which I do believe were made better than the Fulton L.C. Smith's. As as example the Quality 2 Syracuse L.C. Smith was listed at $80.00 in an 1888 catalog, quite a sum of money back then. The very early Fultons from 1889 to the early 1900's were built using the same attributes of the Syracuse guns, but later changes had to be made because of forging and machining costs but the prices were still lower than Syracuse.

As to why L.C. Smith's fire easily when dropped or banged, it is of my opinion that because they are true side lock guns the sears are very close to the trigger plate and could be prone to discharge, although I have never heard of one doing so.
The first grades made in Fulton were the No 1 and No 2. the No 1 was Fulton's design and the No 2 was very close to the Quality 2 of Syracuse. In 1891 Hunter Arms Co. came out with the No.2 gun. There were 4 variations and in my opinion again, the first variation was the nicest Fulton gun ever made, it featured a rebated lock and the stock was also rebated where the locks were. The locks on one side had two English settera and the right had two pointers. The rebated locks were similar to the Syracuse Quality 7 and some Quality 6's. The dog engravings were most likely done by A.E. Spangler who also did the dog and birds on the Syracuse guns and transferred to Fulton and worked for Hunter Arms Co. Jacob Glahn and his sons also came for Syracuse to Fulton and was a top notch engraver.
The only gun that I know of that has Spangler's name on the lock plate is an Qptimus Grade Lefever gifted to then-President Benjamin Harrison.

I could go on but enough is enough. The Hunter Arms Co. box locks were another good double that is now coming into it's own shown by auction prices.

mebbee when youse guys are done pissin on each udder, we could focus on the topic of dis tread...

fixed it...changed the title of this thread...


so have at hit boys...

Ok ed I'll bite, what are you looking for specifically? I've read your initial post and Lloyd was good enough to post some pictures.
What I can add is that Syracuse guns did not have ejectors or single triggers, ventilated ribs, beavertail for-ends, steel barrels, etc.

The earliest Syracuse L.C. Smith hammerless gun, serial number 16000 had a unique sear spring that was later discontinued, why who knows.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/HY92Jrq.jpg?2[/img]