doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1907 french gun

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=632347&page=4
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/998258318

i have received the referenced "b. granet a dieppe" 12 gauge gun at the close of the week, and am generally pleased with the gun. the fit and finish is of obviously excellent workmanship - i would say equal, or better, than my la manu ideals. the barrels were proofed at 18.4, and measure; right @ .735, with 5 thou constriction, and left @ .732, with 48 thou. thus, the right is "out of proof" at .011 over, and the left is .008 over....the set is otherwise sound - 6.5cm chambers and cones appear unmolested, and tubes ring nicely. interestingly the right muzzle measures .730, which is .006 larger than the original 18.4 bore - so evidently when it was honed, some "backbored" choke was retained - makes me wonder if the original was a true cylinder?

the barrel set is marked "canons plume", and this is the first time i have had in hand such barrels. i had always assumed that was short-hand for "light weight", but now i can see that there is an actual difference. unlike the "I beam", one piece rib used on the la manu guns (which is centered between the tubes, and visible both as a "top rib" and a "bottom rib")....these barrels have only a top rib, a flat top tapered one that swamps toward the muzzles. it is revealed on the underside of the tubes, but leaves a great deal of the tubes unsupported. makes me wonder if it is a solid piece of metal, rather than hollow, or a framework device?

argo: the barrel proofs are carbon copies of your pictured guns in the same timeline....regrettably, my attempts at closely detailed photographs continue to disappoint me, so i will reference one of your posts/photos;
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=633240#Post633240 and say that other than the cm/mm change, the markings and their locations, for practical purposes are identical. for your records, i will note your serial # for these barrels should be 12455, rather than 12466....and i hope this post will result in more definite information regarding the maker and gun serial #.

in my research thus far, i have learned this gun was sold in 2021 by a german auction house in munich - which had evidently cataloged the gun 4 times before it was sold https://www.lot-tissimo.com/en-gb/a...lot-997fdf46-b76f-4ca2-86dd-ad4200db26f1 their description indicates the barrels being reblacked, but i do not see any evidence - or, if so, it was an exceedingly good job. case colors appear to be original with limited wear on sharp edges and grip areas of the tangs. importer was tggi in mobile alabama, who has a storefront in munich. my seller bought the gun through a new england auctioneer.

proofs on the action flats include typical powder T, the numbers 13 and 16 (quite separately spaced), and an arched legend "medaille d'or" over 1900....formatted exactly like the two arched "grand prix" over 1900, that grace all d-d barrel sets after that award. there are two additional marks; one, a tiny shield - three pointed at top & single point at bottom - so small that i cannot make out any further details, and second, the name "moulard". the font and arrangement of these stamps echo the typical d-d stamps on the tubes and barrel flats....and lead me to wonder if this gun might be an actual d-d product. additionally, there is a stamp 13 inside the trigger guard - so i am led to think that may be the serial # of the gun.

further links that may be of utility:
https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...d-didier-drevet-10-gauge-boxlock-shotgun
https://www.passionlachasse.com/t39250-juxtapose-didier-drevet
https://www.naturabuy.fr/juxtapose-Didier-Drevet-cal-12-tres-jolie-bois-item-7877487.html

argo's efforts here to understand the ins-and-outs of the french guns are a significant drawing card for me, and i offer him my thanks, and hope that the usual suspects will join in with their knowledge.

best regards,

tom

Sweet !!
Is this a shooter gun or a closet gun?
Mike

That is a fine gun. The plume barrels were very well known, very light and solid. I don't think Didier Drevet built the whole gun but would still like to see the water table. I also don't think you have to worry about the barrels being honed. French barrels are generally heavy duty.

I cannot offer an opinion on the shield without a picture. I've been collecting miscellaneous French stamps over the last few years - have about 30 so far.

Moulard is a French sur-name. It could be the maker.

If it would help someone in the future I'll post an interpretive text I made for my Daughter-in-law's Gerest-Berthon 16 ga. with Didier Drevet barrels.

Barrel Inscriptions:



1. Didier Drevet, barrel maker (Canonier St Etienne) and his marks.

2. Grand Prize 1900 (for Paris Universelle exposition)

3-4. Proof mark for Saint Etienne for PT powder.

5. Length of the chamber in centimeters i.e. “7 cm” or 2 3/4”..normally marked 70mm in every other place in Europe but Saint Etienne at the time… Saint Etienne switched from using mm in 1889 to cm then back to mm in 1918-1919. The fact that this gun is chambered for 2 3/4” is unusual. Most French guns of the era until after WWII were chambered for 6.5 or 65mm i.e. 2 1/2” shells. See “Double Express” on both barrel and butt plate.

6. 17.0 = diameter of the bore in mm equal to 16 gauge in America/UK.

7. Crossed palms with “St Etienne” - the Saint Etienne proof house mark. Your gun has two palm marks, meaning it’s been “double proofed” for more powerful powder charges than normal. The old butt plate which I had replaced had “Double Express” stamped on it.

8. “Didier Eureka Canon Plume”: trademark of Didier Drevet. He invented a barrel which did not have a lower rib and thus was a lot lighter. Canon (barrel) plume (feather) is the idea.

9. “Non pour la balle” (not for ball). Barrels are “choked” and could not fire a slug.

10. 7859: Gerest-Berthon serial number of the gun

11. “Canon du Surete Garantie” “Double Express”: Sort of an advertisement meaning “guaranteed good barrels.” The “double express” - probably is why it’s chambered for 7.0 cm length shells.

12 (white). 1906 . 11985: The date the barrel was made by Didier Drevet 1906 and DD’s barrel serial number. Saint Etienne guns are very hard to date. However, the fact that DD dated and serial numbered his barrels enabled us to sort of get a handle on the dating process.

Retailer: (In this case a retailer in Palermo, Sicily)

Don't forget the >>Helice Gripp<< without the proverbial stop..... Or is the stop folded in?????


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Not a Helice grip on Skeetzs's DD...we've discussed it before. See the screw slot in the top lever - It's a Scott Spindle.

mike:

undetermined at this point, gun fits me reasonably well, 6 lbs 8 ozs is a favorable weight, and it seems mechanically sound. downsides are, very heavy trigger pulls - must be 7 or 8 pounds, and a "light game gun" with skt 1 (.005) on one trigger, and half a mile past full (.048) on the other.

this spring, i moved to southern new mexico for keeps....and moved away from phil crenwelge - who's shop was an hour from my house. he could adjust the excessive trigger pulls, and cut the 48 thou back toward 20-25 thou.

at this time the jury is still out - but it's always enjoyable to do the research on a neat old gun...

best regards,

tom

The "Helice Gripp" is almost--but not quite--a violation of a Verney-Carron registered trademark. I've seen it used before. V-C registered the trademark "Helice Grip". The extra p apparently kept the maker of that gun out of legal trouble.