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In Chapter IV, 23, - Origin of the UK center break gun - Hodges and Lang: the following has been added and Stephan has done ground breaking research: "This is not a detailed recounting of how Lefaucheaux’s break-action pin-fire breech-loader conquered the UK and changed gun history. However, the facts must be reviewed in brief so that Reilly’s part in it can be understood. (This is according to widely accepted gun-history legend; see below re Stephen Nash's rewriting of this narrative)." . **Note: Stephen Nash, a pin-fire expert, has published an excellent and erudite examination of the British adaption of the French breech-loading concept. He has postulated credibly, based on analysis of existing guns and gun sketches, that Hodges and Lang adopted elements of Beringer's center break concepts in their gun, vice those of Lefaucheaux.*23mhttps://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/lever-over-guard-origins
Last edited by Argo44; 01/13/24 12:27 AM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Reilly's use of Whitworth steel barrels has been well documented in the History Chapter XI, 76 - first advertisements (Jan 82), first guns (Dec 81), grain sheaf trademark, etc. But this gun continues to haunt. If it is steel. . .Reilly was light years ahead of the gun industry. Added to the history: Text:There is an 1876 Reilly SxS rifle that appears to have steel barrels, but may be blued Damascus, the advertisement gun description being minimal; If these are in fact original steel barrels they pre-date Purdey's use of Whitworth steel by 4 years: . . . . .SN 19953 (1876): - E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street, London. 500 BPE. Rifle SxS. U-L hammer gun, steel barrels. Round back-action lock. 28” *76c
Last edited by Argo44; 01/03/24 12:11 AM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Added title page to Reilly history on p.94 (Still haven't gotten the hang of Yahoo editing software - New Year's resolution to take a course):
Last edited by Argo44; 01/08/24 10:37 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Bedfordshire Archives has sent the inventory of JC Reilly's home upon his death. Here-in lies an enigma. -- Bedfordshire death certificate for JC Reilly is for 11 January 1864. See below. -- However, the contents of the farm were sold at auction on 23 April 1866 and the list of goods includes two guns SN 13921 and 13927, both 12 bore SxS Jones U-L shotguns, which weren't numbered until late 1865. The auction seems to imply that JC had died in March-April 1866. Did JC manage to pass away twice? I'm attaching the death certificate and the home inventory of the guns only. 5 guns are serial numbered and have been added to the list on p.57. EM Reilly inherited the farm. Perhaps he or a tenant used it then disposed of it in April 1866? Interesting to see that water beds existed in the 1860's: JC Reilly Death Certificate: EM Really inherited the farm: April 1866 inventory of the farm:
Last edited by Argo44; 03/11/24 01:26 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Why keep records? History. Diggory sent information about the Reilly Big-Bore SxS rifle which has come to light in Ireland. It is SN'd 22432 probably numbered in very late 1880 or very early 1881. It is a .577 SxS Jones Under-Lever Rifle with what appears to be back-action locks. There is an inscription on the barrel flats - presumably some Celtic runes followed by "RM" - probably the owner. The "5288" on the under rib probably is a Birmingham barrel maker number. I can’t tell if these are Steel barrels or blued damascus – possibly the latter since Reilly was not advertising Whitworth steel until late 1881. There looks to be a faint 22xxx on the barrels which would have been the stamped serial number. Perhaps the original barrels were blued at some point. The address on the rib is 502 New Oxford Street. It does not match the case label which is for 277 Oxford Street in a format not seen (Gun and Rifle Makers on leather) until the 1890's. There is a problem: a gun with the same description and SN 22432 was sold 10 years ago at Holts: https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=A1214++++914+&refno=+++76477At that time the Holt's gun was housed in a case with a label with the address 16, New Oxford Street and 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore, Paris (1885-1886). That case had the name of George Sackville Sinclair Wemyss on it . He died in Scotland in 1882. Six years ago we speculated that the case was not original to the gun or that it had been returned to Reilly for servicing and a new label added (and it does appear that that label was indeed a replacement of some sort. Possible solutions to the problem: 1) There are two Reilly 22432's (unlikely) 2)This gun in Ireland is the same as the Holt's gun but the case and label has been changed. The case though very similar seem to have slight differences. The stocks look similar (photos are not good) The sights on the guns look slightly different though it is hard to tell from the quality of the photos. 3) or once again Holt's got mixed up by the similarities between Reilly's "3"'s and "5"'s and the "Wemyss" cased gun was in fact "22452” not “22432." Holt's did not publish photos of the SN or mention the inscription/initials which are on the barrel flats of the Irish gun, something they usually would done (unless Holt's was trying to use the Wemyss name on the case to sell the gun). Diggory has been asked to try to find out more about the Irish gun. Personally I think they are the same gun.
Last edited by Argo44; 03/17/24 10:40 AM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Same gun and case with a changed label for my money. The difference in picture quality covers the possible detail discrepancies I`d think.
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Sidelock
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UK Archives forwarded copies of the 25 November 1911 incorporation of EM Reilly & Co. into a Limited Liability company and the bankruptcy documents from June 8, 1912. It was hoped that these documents would include an inventory of Reilly properties and assets at the time. Instead there is nothing but legalese. However, three historical bits can be discerned from them: 1) Herbert Reilly in 1911 had no partners in the business. When the company became Ltd., George Watkinson Roberts, accountant and bankruptcy lawyer, became a partner. It was evident that by autumn 1911 Herbert Reilly knew bankruptcy was coming and positioned the company to protect his private assets. 2) When bankruptcy was declared all the assets went to Roberts to dispose of. This is probably why Reilly made a great effort to sell off all his remaining guns in 1911. In the serial number chart as currently configured some 60+ guns were numbered and sold in 1911 - 4 times the number sold in 1910. 3) IGC history (which was not a bad original effort before the internet - and which stated Reilly made his own guns) commented that Reilly might have leased and moved to 13 High Street, Marylebone fall 1911 before the incorporation of EM Reilly & C0.. These documents mention nothing of this and it is evident Reilly remained at 295 Oxford Street until bankruptcy. 295 was leased to a hat maker in autumn 1912. (It is possible that Reilly leased the Marylebone building before declaring bankruptcy and moved some of his machinery there; creditors would have been left essentially with an empty building in such a case. So far no way to investigate this possibility has been found). Edit: I've written Archives asking if there is anyway to find out what was sold out of 295 Oxford Street to satisfy the creditors - assuming the G. Watkinson Roberts would have handled this. Here are a couple of the documents for the record:
Last edited by Argo44; 03/22/24 05:05 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Sidelock
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Chapter VII, 43. Early 1860’s: Reilly and Cutlery, Swords, Bayonets concerns Reilly as a cutlery maker - making knives, swords and bayonets; he is so listed in London business directories in the late 1850's and early 1860's. There is a Reilly Yataghan bayonet for sale on this site: https://auctions.bosleys.co.uk/catalogue/?searchTerm=Reilly&searchOption=3It has the two address 315 and 502 Oxford, London and the name "E.M. Reilly & Co. . i.e after the August 1858 opening of 315 Oxford street and the March 1859 change in the name to E.M. Reilly & Co . . . . with no maker's name on it. It has a dark background etched field on the engraving. A Reilly Enfield sword/ Yataagan bayonet was previously pictured with E.M. Reilly & Co. 315 and 502 Oxford streets. . .with a maker's name "Reeves." The engraving is identical but with a light background field. There is a sword /bayonet for a Jacobs' Rifle with only Reilly 502 Oxford Street on the engraving (pre March 1859); it does not have a contrasting background to the engraving. It would be interesting to know where and from whom Reilly sourced his blades. The Reeves name above likely refers to a patent solid hilt designed by Charles Reeves and patented around 1853. "as early as 1854 the Wilkinson records show that they were producing the Patent Solid Hilt also on officers' swords, presumably while paying a royalty fee to Reeves. "https://www.antique-swords.co.uk/im...ilt-british-light-cavalry-officers-swordPatent Solid Hilt officers' swords were usually the products of either Reeves or Wilkinson's workshops in the early years and these two companies seem to have had a close operating relationship. Reeves was the biggest manufacturer of swords in Birmingham (until Robert Mole & Sons later took that place) and Wilkinson was the largest in London. Reeves went bankrupt in 1869 and then returned to sword making on a smaller scale, but in 1883 Wilkinson bought a large share in the company and later completely absorbed it.
Most surviving Patent Solid Hilt swords are therefore Wilkinsons, however a few other makers did copy the feature, whether under official licence or not it is not currently known. The author has seen examples of the solid hilt made by Pillin and Mole for example. As well as examples with only retailers' names on, such as Phillips (which could have been made by Reeves for the retailers), which could have been made by Reeves, Wilkinson, Mole, Pillin or someone else. There were not actually many sword makers in Britain by the 1850s and a few companies were making most of the sword blades, which were then etched with the retailer's details. The engraving on Reeves' swords resembles that on the Reilly: A paragraph has been added to the book to suggest that Reilly possibly sourced his blades from Reeves.
Last edited by Argo44; 04/13/24 08:44 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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The “engraving” on the Reeves blade is in fact etching where the areas to be left bright and raised are masked and the rest is subjected to controlled acid removal.
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This is odd. It's a commercial sign in the form of a wooden revolver for E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford Street. Assume this is from the 1870's-1880's based on the name, address, and the (non-pin-fire) type revolver. Wonder where on 502 New Oxford Street it hung? https://bidspirit.com/ui/lotPage/source/catalog/auction/43525/lot/18779/title?lang=enLOT 1035: A LARGE AND RARE LATE 19TH CENTURY GUN SHOP ADVERTISING SIGN for E.M. REILLY & CO. NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON. ... Sold for: £1,500
Last edited by Argo44; 04/19/24 09:35 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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