doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Charles Masquelier Double 12

I recently bought a C. Masquelier 12ga side by side. My plan is to use it for squirrel hunting for which I exclusively use high brass #6 shot. The shotgun is choked full and modified. I've had a long time locally respected gunsmith take a look at it and he gave his opinion that it was safe to use. I am still researching. From online forums, here and elsewhere I've done my best to be sure. This one has the Lion/P.V. proof stamp. Made in Liege Belgium. It has a Capital letter "B" stamped on it. It is not a Damascus. Am I correct the manufacture year would be 1949? It's a box lock and the based on the weight stamps, the barrels are unaltered from original weight. The Box lock mechanism locks up tight with no slack at the breach. The stock shows a very slight tang crack that I realize might grow with usage. I asked the gunsmith about it and he said to hunt with it but monitor if any issues start to develop around the grip area. Sorry I didn't see how to directly attach a photo with the post. Simply, I'm asking if I'm missing any steps in my research. Thanks for any responses.

Masquelier made some nice doubles
https://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20ma/a%20masquelier%20gb.htm

Are the flats marked 70 (mm) for 2 3/4" chambers?

No, 'B' would not be the date code, which are shown here
https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/belgian-shotgun-identification-guide.232252/

Did the gunsmith remove the stock and check the head of the stock for more cracks? In that it is already cracked, I would limit loads to 1 oz. if you decide not to repair the crack.

I don't believe he did (remove stock and inspect it) but he told me he had seen the gun in the shop and almost bought it but just didn't want to spring for the money at the time. My plan is to get it back to him before our fall season opens this year. Otherwise, he looked it over for a good while when I visited him. The barrels are stamped 12-70 inside of a horizontal Omega. There is a distinct Capital B (Script Font) stamped, a Star with G under it, the Lion over the P.V., a royal seal with ELG a star in it, and finally the 12-70 in the Omega stamp. The Both Barrels are stamped JF and 183 Choke 182 on both barrels. The barrels measure 25.5" to the rear of the breach. I'm hoping to find reliable information. I have downloaded a copy of a list of "Belgian Proof Marks" from Damascus-Barrels.com that indicates the capital "B" coincides with 1949 while the small letter "b" signifies 1923. I'm sorry that I don't know how to attach an image to this forum but thank you for your response. I'm really trying to learn more and more about these old Side by Sides.

The Omega lying confirms the gun was made 1924 or after
1949 would be the Greek letter beta, usually lower case but possibly upper case
Yes, the chambers would be 2 3/4"
'JF' is likely Jean Falla, who made the barrels, often for high end guns
https://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20e%20f/a%20falla%20gb.htm

I would suggest a second opinion regarding the stock. It's a nice gun and repair of the crack will be much easier when small.

Cornell Pubs has a 1964 Masquelier catalog repro which might show the grade of the gun
https://cornellpubs.com/product/3752/

the assumption that the gun has full and modified choking, does not agree with the proof marks....you state that both barrels are marked "choke 18.3 over 18.2 (mm)". that would indicate that both tubes have one tenth of a mm constriction - which is .004 of an inch....about what would be called skeet 1. the barrel length (25.5") would also point to open chokes...as a general rule.

unless actual measurements of the choke constrictions show otherwise, the gun may not be well suited for squirreling.

best regards,
tom

Tom: After 1924 the markings were "Choke" and bore only.
If marked only with one number & the word "Choke", then it indicates bore size only and has at least .2 mm (.008") of choke constriction.

So much to take in but I'm intrigued with these old doubles. Regarding the repair, I've already made arrangements to have the small tank crack addressed. Regarding the grade of this shotgun, I would have to believe it would be of an entry level grade as there is minimal engraving around the borders of the frame and it isn't nearly as ornate as some of the more highly engraved models I've seen photos of from the same maker.

I've read that after a certain year, the 18.3 Choke 18.2 signified there were two measurements taken in the bore. Obviously, I'm not certain on that at all. The barrels at the muzzle mic out at .693 and and .695. If those measurements were compared to the nominal 12 ga bore diameter of 18.5 mm that would be a pretty significant amount of restriction. For giggles, I did check it with a .705 dia dime and it won't fit inside. The gunsmith who looked at it and had looked at it before, seemed confident that it was a full and a modified but I've yet to pattern it.

When it comes to defining the ammunition you intend to use, or should use in a vintage double, high brass is a meaningless term. What Make? What is the load? What is the FPS? What is the peak pressure? What is your gun proofed for?

The stock is likely cracked because someone has consistently shot loads heavier than it was designed for. Old wood will only handle the recoil for so long.

I use the term High Brass for any heavy game load. Presently, I hunt with Super X 1 1/4 Oz shot at 1330 FPS, so these are pretty hot loads. We hunt in pretty tall timber in our area and haven't had as good of luck with bird loads. I will also use Remington of about the same load.