doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Charles Masquelier Double 12

I wouldn’t shoot 1.25 oz shells in anything less than 7.5 lbs. really bad on wood. I killed several hundred with 1 oz 1165-1200 fps #6s out of a 16ga. Even Godzilla looking fox squirrels with grey faces that were too tuff to eat ( but did anyway). Lol grandfather always gave me he#@ about not shooting those tough a$$ old squirrels.

Masquelier was a well respected Belgian maker. The dime shows you two things when it comes to measuring bores: You have a shotgun, and you have a dime.

Well then, good luck with the gun.


I’m curious…….did you tell your gunsmith you intend to exclusively shoot 1 1/4” loads at 1330 fps out of it? If you did, and he didn’t caution you then we can draw one of two conclusions. Either he’s unqualified to work on vintage SxS or he’s looking forward to plenty of work from you.

In my squirrelly past I found that heavy loads at higher velocities are not the best way to address high squirrels. In a shotgun, larger shot sizes at 1150 - 1165 fps IS the way, and usually gives tighter patterns at range. That failing, God made the .22 LR, which early on became my squirrel gun of choice. Squirrels can be taken at nose-bleed altitudes with that.

JMHO, YMMV

Cavasback, my reference to the heavy loads is what I hunt with and have historically hunted with throughout my life. He and I didn't discuss heavy loads vs lighter loads. His recommendation was to watch the the wooden stock and pay attention if anything changes. The breech locks up very tight. I'm here and speaking with others collecting the best information I can get and doing so primarily to determine the strongest load I can safely use in the gun. It looks to me like I may be good with one ounce at mid 1100 fps range but I am considering like Stanton Hillis has mentioned. I'm considering my options. I do have some places where a bit lighter load may be plenty but I hunt other locations that pretty long shots. I do have other shotgun options but want to hunt as much as I can with the old double.

[quote=WPMinor]Cavasback, my reference to the heavy loads is what I hunt with and have historically hunted with throughout my life. He and I didn't discuss heavy loads vs lighter loads. His recommendation was to watch the the wooden stock and pay attention if anything changes. The breech locks up very tight. I'm here and speaking with others collecting the best information I can get and doing so primarily to determine the strongest load I can safely use in the gun. It looks to me like I may be good with one ounce at mid 1100 fps range but I am considering like Stanton Hillis has mentioned. I'm considering my options. I do have some places where a bit lighter load may be plenty but I hunt other locations that pretty long shots. I do have other shotgun options but want to hunt as much as I can with the old double.[/quoIf yte]

With those 1.25 oz loads, what pressure are you trying to stay below?

Keep in mind that recoil consideration for the wood are basically velocity x weight. If you cut the weight but jump the velocity as a result, you may not gain anything from the perspective of your stock's wood.

L. Brown, I get what you are saying. These barrels measure .693 & .695. Unless I'm wrong (been wrong a lot in life) that's .027 and .025 constriction at the muzzle. I believe that to be in the range of Improved Modified but I'm not certain on that. I thank each of you for your responses. They are truly appreciated as I'm just trying to learn.

Brent D. First, my goodness, that's one beautiful Golden Retriever and a stunning shotgun. I have an understand that weight of the projectile (shot) and velocity are directly interlinked with chamber pressure. I'm trying to determine with factory rounds, how or (if) I can use this side by side to squirrel hunt in my region effectively and still be within safe margins. As much as I scour the internet, it's hard to find some answers or else, I find conflicting information. I'm familiar with SAMMI specs which are well published and have read (not certain) that the Europeans had a lower pressure standard (9000 psi) comes to mind. I'm not even sure I worded that correctly. It's why I'm on this forum trying to develop a better understanding. I've used firearms almost all my sixty years and am a certified armorer for several modern firearms, Glock pistols and Rock River AR15s but a shotgun of the vintage I have in this side by side is new territory for me. I also understand and have seen the end results of chambers/receivers that were exposed to over pressure. Thanks to all who have tried to answer my post and mostly for their patience with my lack of knowledge on this topic.

Perhaps I misunderstood your intention. The way your first couple posts read, at least to me, it was like you weren't really interested in learning much, just kinda getting confirmation for what you intended to do. If that's not the case, let me apologize for being a bit harsh.

I think this board is always ready to help someone who truly wants to learn about their old gun. One of the things that happens is you may find out more that you thought you would. You ask one question but you get the answers to five. You may find that the gun you acquired, or the gunsmith your are using or any number of things, isn't the right tool/man for the job. And we don't know anything about your circumstance or intent except what you write in your posts here. With each succeeding post, we are learning more about you. The most important thing, at least to me, is that you can entertain changing your course of action when new, unexpected information comes your way.

Thanks for the compliments. The dog is indeed, special, but the gun is relatively plain, though it certainly seems to provoke some outrage from a couple of the grumpier folks here. I like it, however. It is just a Merkel Model 8.

Factory loads may change without notice so the major manufactures rarely, if ever, put pressures on them. Most places that test ammo pressure will not test factory ammo, but they will test handloads. For a gun like yours, I would seriously look into handloading. You won't need to make a huge amount of ammo for hunting, so you can get by with pretty simple tools.

Unfortunately, most published reloads for shotguns concentrate on the upper end of the pressure scale, but we can find loads that are pretty reasonable. In my vintage 2.75" 12s, I use a 1.25 oz load that is published at 7700 PSI at 1250. That should bring down your big coastal plain fox squirrels from the top of a good sized Loblolly or Longleaf. Personally, I shoot squirrels only with a .22, but this load should get it done for you if you are willing to reload. Scrounging for supplies is a bit of a PITA but doable. You might even find a trusted buddy that could make them up for you too.