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Joined: Feb 2008
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,466 Likes: 487 |
The gun in the link has a crossover stock. They are built with extreme cast to permit a shooter to use the opposite eye as the shoulder they prefer. So it appears that Ted is probably correct about the French word meaning something like that... indicating it is stocked for a visually impaired shooter. They are an unusual alternative for a right handed shooter who loses vision in his dominant right eye, and vice versa. If you really love shooting, you do what you gotta do to stay in the game. I think I recall KY Jon recently telling us that he has been putting together a little collection of crossover stocked guns.
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,280 Likes: 365 |
SN 5219. . . .Nr. 3. . . . Oldest Robust so far found. Probably just after WWI - the above chart would put it late 1919/early 1920; However, it could even be pre-war. What we really need is an early Robust "bis" model which would give a marker for pre-WWI guns. https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/manufrance-robust-no3-12-ga-double-shotgun-969-c-bd04795913SERIAL NUMBER 5219 BARREL 27 1/2" CALIBER 12 GAUGE MANUFACTURED CIRCA 1930';S. Produced in France by Manufrance with box lock action and double triggers. Lifter extractors. Varnished pistol grip stocks with splinter forearm. Smooth steel butt plate. CONDITION. Good with bright bores and properly operating action. Barrel finish is mottled. Stocks remain full sized . Both barrels have small bulges at muzzle. TDW /. C&R
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: Apr 2018
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 368 Likes: 97 |
argo44; the button that you are evidently referencing in the photo is the fingertip contact point for the sliding safety switch on ideals - and robust-ideals. it's a very simply sheet metal "gate" that slides into notches in the reverse face of the triggers, and keeps them from moving. it's sole function is to prevent trigger(s) movement, and has no effect on other cause of accidental discharges....it's other shortcoming is the fact that it works in the opposite direction from pretty well 100% of other safeties - moves forward to the safe position, and rearward to fire. in my opinion, it's the one and only design feature on an ideal where la manu collaborated with mickey mouse... best regards, tom
"it's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards." lewis carroll, Alice in Wonderland
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Joined: Feb 2016
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,280 Likes: 365 |
Merci Tom, I thought that might be the case but for the life of me I can't figure out how one would break that gun. I can't see a lever anywhere. I've assumed that these 4 digit SN's were somehow associated with the Ideal trigger-plate under-lever but can't see it on that gun.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,977 Likes: 893
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,977 Likes: 893 |
Gene, The lever appears to be tied up with the string with the paper tag on it. You can see the track for the lever, in the back of the trigger guard.
Best, Ted
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,280 Likes: 365
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,280 Likes: 365 |
Yet another Robust-Ideal. . .model 292P an Ideal type trigger-plate U-L. It has a 4 digit SN 6114 on the barrel but 1300 on barrel flats and Action flats. Surely there's an explanation: https://www.galeriedemars.fr/chasse...16-70-manufacture-saint-etienne-xxe.htmlPer FAB500 on the Ideal line, each distinct Manufrance model had its own SN. Robust-Ideal's had their own characteristics and must have been numbered separately. Why the two different numbers, on barrel tubes and on barrel and action flats is still not explained.
Last edited by Argo44; 01/25/24 04:16 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 143 Likes: 30
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 143 Likes: 30 |
We'll have to return to Canvasback's 940,000 estimate for total Robust production. This Robust 254 is 919273: J'ai contacté le vendeur pour vérification du numéro de série. C'est 819273, qui situe ce fusil vers 1981 / 1982. Argo44, je ne pense pas que Naturabuy obligera ses clients à marquer les numéros de série de leurs armes dans leurs annonces. C'est peine perdue ! Le mieux, c'est de pouvoir consulter les archives de Manufrance à Saint-Etienne. J'y suis allé il y a quelques temps, mais pour le moment ce n'est pas prévu que j'y retourne.
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Joined: Feb 2016
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,280 Likes: 365 |
Ah, merci beaucoup Fab. Je pense aller à Saint-Chamon peut-être en Avril. Je visiterai Saint-Etienne bien sûr.
Ok . . . .back to an estimated 880,000 Robusts once again.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 143 Likes: 30
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 143 Likes: 30 |
It is very frustrating that the proof house didn’t bother to date certificates of proof. I have looked at hundreds of those over the years, and that little addition would have answered questions.
Scary to think we are reliant on me for French text, but, I think that word refers to vision or lack of same, for the build of the stock. A stock for a vision impaired or partially blind individual, perhaps.
Best, Ted
. Salut Ted, Le banc d'épreuve de Saint-Etienne n'a jamais daté ses épreuves, car entre l'épreuve et la vente du fusil il pouvait s'écouler un temps important (5 ans et même plus). Un client risquait d'être mécontent car il pouvait penser avoir acheter un fusil d'occasion, alors qu'il était neuf.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,977 Likes: 893
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,977 Likes: 893 |
Bonjour, Fab
C'est logique, mais cela rend beaucoup plus difficile pour nous de dater avec précision l'arme !
Merci bien,
Sinceres salutations,
Ted
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