doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Rook rifles ?

Buckstix- I did see your post, very interesting rifle. One of the reasons to ask for photos of more rook rifles.
LRF- I collect old hunting books, and some of them, from down south, have mentioned coot gizzard gumbo. I have hunted ducks since I was old enough to get a license, but never paid much attention to coots. Figured it was time to see if those southern hunters knew what they were writing about, so shot 6 or 7 coots one day. Found out they have surprisingly big gizzards, for a relatively small bird. With both of us living in Pennsylvania our entire lives, the gumbo my wife makes might not compare to gumbo from Louisiana, but to us Yankees, that gizzard gumbo was very good. You just never know until you try.

LOL, I am fond of Bridge shot Pigeon Pie and have also eaten Black Bird Pie but that was 60 some odd years ago. Today I prefer chicken pot pies.

I believe you are correct in your last statements.
As many as 40 of us gathered from 2000-2010 to shoot them annually near Cincinnati. Tom Rowe & I restarted Rook Matches last fall, in E. Tenn. along with SS Sporting Rifles. Another match next month - posted on this forum.
Many Rook rifles were bored out to .410 in the 1920’s with the UK ban on rifles.
Tranter was a big supplier of actions to the trade.
Seems the most popular cartridge found are:
250-295
.295 / 300 Rook
.360 No.5 / .380
Sorry, I haven’t taken the time to learn how to post photos on this forum. But, I do have a ‘19th Century Battery’ FB page to communicate my match, with lots of photos.
You should acquire one as they are fantastic little rifles and fun to shoot.

It is a shame so many were converted into a .410. Trying to convert them back, into a proper rook caliber, is often impossible due to liner wall thickness and lack of bore diameter even in a .410. Plus many of the original calibers are for long discontinued calibers which even hand loading are a bit of extra work. You often can just line them to .22 and alter the bolt to put them back in service. I guess with the .17 rim-fire you cold go that direction. But I liked the low power nature of the original caliber, which limited their range and their being used in tighter spaces. If you bullet carries a mile you have a back stop issue.

KY Jon
I converted 2 back to 360 No.5, both were H&H hammerless.
1 lined, the other sleeved.
.366 (9.3mm) liners are still available, I believe.
The 360 No.5 (or .380) basically use a 38 long colt case.

Had they not been converted to .410’s, giving them a new lease of life and much simplified legal status, many of the rook rifles that still survive would have gone as scrap.

The pity is that so many, on conversion, had the front part of the barrel turned down from octagon to round with the change being marked by 2 or 3 circular grooves turned into the barrel.

This was pretty unsightly and in my view the rounding down of the barrel was unnecessary as in boring out to .410 a lot of metal is removed from the barrel leaving the octagonal barrel, if left alone, quite nicely balanced.

It also made it much more difficult to restore them to their original state as rifles such as .32-20 as many have done in recent years.

To prove it could be done nicely (if it had to be done at all) here is how it was done by Charles Edward Greener ( W.W. Greener’s son) for his daughter May.



The original fully octagon barrel has been blended into an ovate shape with the original matted top flat being preserved all the way to the muzzle. Note the chisel work done to blend the change.

I have just acquired, on a princely bid of £2 ( it was Holts upper estimate) a bundle of 4 books.

One is a grubby and fragile copy of W W Greener’s Modern Breechloaders, published 1871.

I looked to see what he had to say about Rook Rifles, to find that he did not use the term instead calling them as shown above Breech-Loading Pea-Rifles.

They were certainly referred to in his later works as Rook or Rook and Rabbit rifles.

Historic Bore, do you know when the term first appeared in print?

The term " four and twenty blackbirds in a pie" in the poem, refers to the custom of making a "pie" from "branchers" breasts.
Mike

I just reread this thread and sadly realized I failed to thank everyone who contributed. I've a much better understanding of these rifles and their uses. Thank you, all.

I only have one rook rifle. It is a nice small Belgian Martini that was in 300 Rook. I say was because 60 years ago when I acquired it 300 Rook brass was not available but 32 Long Colt was close so I had it rechambered. The heeled bullets would chamber and shot fairly well but left a mess of lead in the throat. Then Buffalo Arms started making a beautiful little 300 bullet mould which creates bullets that match the bore and seat perfectly in the 32 Long Colt brass. The result is a cartridge which at first glance would pass for 300 Rook and shoots very accurately. Actually, the "rechamber" was just to increase the rim diameter .005 so the Colt case would seat. The Colt case is about .020 shorter than the Rook but it doesn't seem to harm the accuracy.