doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Patterning a gun for Helice / Pigeons

The slide may be becoming a thing of the past? several flyer shoots around my area have started everyone on the 31 line and you stay there.

Very informative thread. Thanks all.

Only shot pigeons a few times. There is a reason they call it the "Sport of Kings".
I only shot one five straight. At Helice I never shot five straight.

I always favored very tight chokes and shot flyers with a very tight Parker. As I progressed into my seventies, I found that shooting my first barrel at 30 yard birds resulted in many missed shots. That 13 inch pattern was just above my skill level. Now I understand why my British pigeon guns are bored .015 and .040 for a more "understanding" pattern from the first barrel.

My experiences shooting box birds have left me thinking, concerning choke, that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. A more open choke on the first shot may kill the bird dead or it may cripple it. If it cripples it maybe you have made it a bit easier to hit it again with the next barrel, and tighter choke. However, if you miss with the second you may be SOL, because it can often climb the fence and be a lost bird.

Many top shooters who shoot two tight chokes live by the mantra "Waste the first shot", meaning to take the first shot so quickly that you may indeed miss clean.

I enjoy the game immensely but just cannot shoot enough to be competitive.

On the subject of Helice Shooting I am going to take pains to avoid sounding like a "KNOW it ALL" but I will preface my post with a few easily verifiable facts.....Thus, I can back up my opinions with Titles Won....

I came to the Helice competition relatively late in my shooting career, but in that time I have won the National Veteran Championship, A Silver Medal in the Veterans Category in FEDECAT World Championship(Fan 32) and A FITASC Veterans WORLD Championship.
We certainly have better shots than me , I know because they beat me regularly, but I think my wins in the relatively short time I have played the game certainly give some weight to my suggestions.
I stand by my previous post and the suggestions, observations , and opinions I put forth there. I won with, and continue to compete with, a 30" Sporter type flat ribbed gun with an adjustable comb, on a Trap style stock. I shoot Helice with a POI @ 6-8" above my POA , somewhat lower than I shoot at American Flyers.

As to chokes I ere on the tight side to compensate for the variations in target structure. Some brands break easier than others, and batches can vary within a brand. I shoot a first barrel with a minium .030 constriction and a Strong Full choke top barrel. I might add that the American with the most impressive National and World wide record at Helice/Fan 32 shoots the tightest choke tubes he has in BOTH barrels.

I started out with 30" barrels shooting helice and swapped to 32's because thats what everyone else shot.
I have now swapped back to 30's and will stay with them.

Speaking of guns for the sport. Years ago our local club was throwing the early style ZZ Birds. The ones with the metal blades and not plastic. They could be re-used over and over again. They would get bent some from the hits and also had several dents from the pellets.
We would have a monthly tournament and it usually drew a crowd of shooters. Some from out of state.
I would spend a lot of time thinking of what shell I would shoot first and what shell I would use in the second barrel. I also put time in having my Perazzi back bored, ported and anything I would think would give give me an advantage. I also bought a 32" Model 21, had it custom stocked and shot it as well.
All that for just gaining a target or two. I spent a lot of money and time and effort to try to gain an advantage.
Well, there was this one young guy from up the road here in N.C. and he would show up on the day of the tournament and kind of keep himself off to the side. When it was his time to shoot he would pull a $400 Beretta auto out of his slip. Load it with the cheap Wallmart Federal shells and smoke every bird.
Needless to say he would leave almost every time with the trophy.

There is one of those "spoilers" in every club. They are fun to watch.

I hope you don’t, sir. I bet I’m not the only one who’s found your insights fascinating and educational. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience in such detail.