doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Advice on loading nickel-plated brass shells?

I just received a 1875 vintage Dougall lockfast. Very nice original condition gun, cased, with quite a few reloading tools.

It also came with 20 nickel-plated brass hulls by UMC that take a boxer primer (small I think?). I'd like to try this out with a period correct load. The charge is marked in the case for C&H is in the case for 3 drams and 1 1/8 ounces of shot. But what about wads and primers?

Also, for those of you that shoot black in brass hulls, would you clean vintage brass hulls in an ultrasonic cleaner? I'd just use dishwasher soap and no lemon shine.

TIA, Chris

At one time, I used an ultrasonic cleaner for all my blackpowder rifle brass. Many others still do. I did not find it very satisfactory and went back to stainless pins and wet tumbler. After many dozens of trips through the ultrasonic, there wasn't a single case that was worse for the wear. Just a little grungier than they needed to be.

As for wads, not all fiber wads are created equal, if you are considering them. Circle Fly cushion wads are pretty useless. The Precision Reloading cushion wads are a good bit better and give more uniform pressures and velocities. I do use CF nitro cards, lubed and unlubed, and they seem fine.

Been shooting black powder for decades but just recently started to shoot it in suppository guns. Specifically, my 45-90 and in brass .410 shells. I have been working on the question f cleaning the cases and have tried a couple different methods. The jury is still out s I have only done a few hundred cases in perhaps 3 or 4 different ways but, so far, was seems to do the best for me stumble them in my wet tumbler and water for a half hour or so, then dump everything out and resumable with clean water and some dawn dish soap for another hour with the SS pins. They come out nice and clean and shiny. If I don't do the first pass, then dump the black water and go again with soap and pins and, rather just add the soap and pins the first time and let them tumble for an hour, they came out clean but dark. I assumed that this may be Duse to tumbling them so long in the dirty water. I don't think I will be using "lemishine" anymore because I think it takes out too much zinc if tumble for any amount of time (brass come out looking reddish) but lemishine would probably be OK as a second pass for just 15 minutes or so. This, of course is with a wet tumbler, not an ultrasonic cleaner but I believe that the end results would be vey similar.

FWIW, I use Lemishine by the hour without a problem. My brass are mostly Starline, with some Winchesters in a few calibers. Recently ran out of LemiShine and switched to a strong teaspoon of Wood Bleach (oxalic acid). Never got the reddish brass.

On the subject of wads, I have been using CF wads (over powder, cushion and over shot) in my muzzle loaders and they seem to work OK as near as I can tell. the cushion wads I soak in bear grease. In my .410, I am still working out a load column that suits me and preliminary results show that my latest iteration may be working well but more shooting needs to be done before I can say that I am satisfied. My biggest issue is with fouling. With muzzle loaders it is not an issue as the bores get "cleaned" on loading but with suppository guns, the load only goes one way and the fouling gets pretty brutal after a round of clays and I am not interested in wiping between shots if I can help it. My latest load is 30GR FFF, over powder wad (punched out of waxed milk carton) then a 1/8" felt wad (dry) then another 1/8" felt wad soaked in bear grease (to clean on the way out), then another card wad from milk carton, 1/2oz shot, then another milk carton card, then topped off with bees wax melted and dripped into the case from a candle to fill the last 1/8". I then push a stamp with the shot size into the wax for identification. The wax is to hold everything together but I don't think it does much in that regard since it does not STICK to the brass. If the loaded shells are rough handled I suspect that the wax "wad" could just fall out. Been considering making a die to SLIGHTLY crimp the case mouth so the wax will flow under the crimp and give it good purchase but would rather not if I don't have to. Still experimenting.

You all are great. Thank you! I expect I'll need to reread your advice a few times before it sinks into my slow noggin. But thank you very much.

I am absolutely certain that you have MUCH more experience than I when it come to cleaning brass with a wet tumbler (I have only had one for a few months) and my conclusions about the lemishine are preliminary. I have done quite a bit of online research on using the wet tumbler and have found anecdotal evidence such as yours that lemishine works great. That is why I bought some. I have also seen MANY anecdotal reports that it draws out zinc and turns brass reddish. Of course there are MANY variables, such as how much lemishine is used, haw much brass is being tumbled per load, what else is used with the lemishine and, of course, cleaning smokeless shells is not wxacley the same thing as cleaning black powder shells. My conclusions (so far) about lemishine is based on very limited tests and I may try out again but my last batch of BP brass without lemishine came out MUCH brighter and shinier and yellower than the previous batch done the same but with the addition of lemishine. Jury is still out for me but the testing will continue. Thanks for sharing your experience with lemishine.

If you don't need it, don't use it. What brand(s) of brass are you using?

Like you, I do a mid-cleaning water dump but I used Lemishine on both sides of that for years. It is still used by more people than not, though where they are buying it, I don't know.

Try the wood bleach sometime - about a heaping teaspoon in my 1-gallon tumbler. I will run up to about 130 cases of .45-70 at a time. Sometimes a little more, maybe.

I clean smokeless the same way, but it cleans faster and without the mid-cleaning water change.

Right now, I'm loading my truck with 438 rounds of .45-70, 200 each of .38-40 and 38-55, 50 rounds of .30-40 (recreational plinking stuff), some .45 acp (also recreational), 1000+ rounds of .22 Eley TenX and Target, 200 rounds of 12 gauge (recreational), and probably some other stuff that I'm not thinking about. I'll be off to Raton in the morning for 3 weeks.

When I get home, there will be a pile of brass cleaning to do.

I can vouch for Lemishine giving brass splotches of reddish colors (10% of surface area or less), if I add more than a tiny amount. But some really helps shine the brass. I use a smaller ultrasonic cleaner. It can handle 50-70 larger cases, like 500BPE or 450BPE. I typically rinse cases after shooting with black powder and run them thru a few 4 minute cycles, replacing the water every 3 cycles. I deprime after the initial runs and clean again in the ultrasonic to get the primer pockets clean. All told it's probably 20-24 minutes in the cleaner with a least one water change. Hot water helps.

Congratulations on the beautiful Dougall Lockfast! For reloading, using nickel-plated brass with black powder is uncommon but can work. Definitely skip the ultrasonic cleaner, which can damage vintage brass. For cleaning, warm soapy water is best.

Finding a specific load recipe for such an old gun is challenging. Start by researching common black powder loads for similar shotguns from the era. Focus on using appropriate wads to protect the brass from the black powder's corrosive nature. Remember to always reduce the starting load data and work your way up cautiously when developing your own loads.