doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers

Argo44:

I assume you have seen this contraption( CANNE FUSIL A VENT Air Comprimé Par REILLY LONDON En Coffret)??


https://www.galeriedemars.fr/armes-...ar-reilly-london-en-coffret-gb-xixe.html

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I am sure you have covered this somewhere, but what does the patent >>5019<< cover & I wonder what touchmark was beside the >>9<<????

https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/...n-breechloading-trails-rifle-al5122.html

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I've done a good bit of research on Reilly air-canes. There is a chapter devoted to them Chapter II/8 - "Air Guns" (p.94 on this line). They are ingenious and Reilly was a well known maker/retailer. Most London gunmakers offered them in the 1830'-1870's. E.M. seemed to specialize in them in the 1840's and wrote a Pamphlet which is still around (mentioned in the history). But I've only found one with a Reilly SN and it was made by J.C. So they can't help date the contraptions. Not surprisingly though, the oldest extant Reilly trade label. . .for 316 High Holborn. . .came out of an air-gun case - it obviously wasn't carried out into muddy fields.

If you go to P. 72 of the line, you'll find a lot of pictures including references to Reilly air guns being mentioned in fiction:


I have the Reilly-Comblain patent use #5109. It's mentioned in the re-edited history posted at the top of p.99. It has Birmingham proofs. I speculated that Reilly moved "production" from London to Birmingham and bumped the PUN's up to begin anew at 5000 (from about 150) (see the list). The interesting thing about this advertisement is the mention of two "inspectors" marks" behind the tang. No photos.

One of the last mysteries of Reilly has been solved. A Danish poster on Shotgun World sent these images he copied several years ago from a French site; This proves that 29, rue du Faubourg, Saint Honoré, Paris not only existed but gives a definitive end to the shop in Paris:



The ads basically say that Reilly's branch at 29 rue du Faugourg is closing. 51 arms are being auctioned off. The last ad says that Reilly no longer has a branch in Paris and refers clients to London.

I've since discovered a French web site that gives access to French periodicals. It's difficult to navigate but perhaps I've not yet learned how to use it properly.
https://gallica.bnf.fr/html/und/presse-et-revues?mode=desktop

This has changed a lot of the history published on p.95 and the dating of the Labels as well. Over the next week, I'll post the changes. This may be the final chapter in this story. There are other unanswered questions but this was the last big one.

How wonderful to find another piece of the puzzle. Bravo!

Checking the French Press website posted above, there are two new firm dates to go with the July 7-8 1887 closure of 29 rue du Faubourg, Reilly's Paris branch:

1) 13 May 1885: A firm date for closing rue Scribe and opening 29 Faubourg:


2) 04 Feb 1868: An earlier date (by two weeks) for the opening of rue Scribe:


This certainly explains the continued references to "Paris" in some Reilly ads in English periodicals up to mid 1887:

Here are the new edited versions of three chapters most effected by the discovery of the French Press Archives Chapters 80, 81,82. The label dating chart had to be changed as well.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

*80 May 1885: Closure of 2 rue Scribe, Paris

In early-may 1885 rue Scribe was closed and the shop was moved to a new location at 29, rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honore. The move is confirmed by Reilly advertisements in the French press (13 may 1985).*80a In the main-stream London press “Rue Scribe, Paris” was present in advertisements in “The Field” in late July 1885 but noticeably absent in the same ad in early August 1885.*80b

. . . . .SN 27340 (July 1885): The last extant SN'd gun with rue Scribe on the rib is 27340, a 12 bore SxS top-lever, hammer-gun, shotgun. The address on the rib is “New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris.”*80c


*81 May 1885-July 1887: Paris Branch moved to 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré

In mid-May 1885 Reilly opened the new shop at 29 rue du Faubourg, Saint-Honoré, Paris; the date is confirmed by an advertisement in “Le Sportsman” of 13 May 1885.*81a

Rue du Faubourg was a prestigious location - Coco Chanel's apartments were above it in another century.*81b In addition to very fashionable Paris shops, Some Parisian gun makers had factories/workshops/show rooms on rue du Faubourg. The road was also the heart of the English speaking community living in Paris a la “Belle Époque” including the home of the British ambassador to France. A sales-shop in that area was a logical Reilly commercial decision and an upgrade from 2 rue Scribe.



Paradoxically, this new Paris shop address was not publicized in the UK in the way 2 rue Scribe had been. It was not included the almost daily UK Reilly advertisements. in fact most post July 1885 Reilly advertisements in the London papers carry no mention of “Paris” at all (although “Paris” continued to be mentioned in some long term advertising contracts with guide books up to 1887).

A series of small ads did appear in the January-February 1886 London press touting a win at the Monte Carlo pigeon shoot by Italian champion pigeon shooter Giuseppe Guidicini using a Reilly with the rue du Faubourg address (chapter *75). The paid for articles were no doubt placed by Reilly.*81c



The closure of the shop at rue du Faubourg was announced by advertisemens in the French Press in late May 1887 after losing its lease and the shop was definitely closed in July*81d Its wares were auctioned off including 51 firearms.*81e The reason for closure, beside termination of the lease, was listed simply as “cessation de commerce à Paris.” Reilly clients were asked to direct their inquiries and orders to the Reilly shop at 16, New Oxford Street, London.*81f



No extant guns with the rue du Faubourg address on the ribs or barrels have been found. Although three Reilly’s numbered after the closure of 2 rue Scribe do have “Paris” on their ribs, most extant guns numbered by Reilly over the following two years made no mention of Paris at all.

Five different gun case labels have been found with this address. The rue du Faubourg labels are generally in the classic post 1861 Reilly format but are not usually scalloped (one out the five is scalloped). They feature the usual main 16, New Oxford Steet address with the 277 Oxford street branch; the rue du Faubourg address is located where 2 rue Scribe had been for 17 years. The labels illustrate the 1867 Paris medals in the upper left hand corner and the 1884 London International Exposition medals in the right.*81g



The scroll work on the rue du Faubourg label is different from that on the classic pre-1885 Reilly label and seems to precede the scroll later used on the stand-alone 16, New Oxford Street label with no Paris address issued after July 1887. (see chapter 82 below).


*82 July 1887: Change in Reilly labels

The labels for both London branches changed slightly with the closure of the Paris branch in July 1887. The labels were used up to May 1897 and the closure of 16, New Oxford, Street.

. . . . .-- 16, New Oxford Street, continued with the scalloped corners, double outlining following the model of the 1861 and 1868 labels. It has the 1867 medals in the upper left corner but with the 1884 London International Exposition gold medal in the upper right.*82a
. . . . . . . . . .The new label also advertised different guns in the scroll work at the bottom of the label.*82b
. . .Top: 1861-1885;
. . .Middle: rue du Faubourg 85-87;
. . .Bottom: Main label after July 1887 closure of the Paris branch.



. . . . .-- 277, Oxford Street also continued its label tradition without the scallops or border lining.*82c
. . . . . . . . . .Likewise some of the descriptions in scroll work in the center of the new label were changed.*82d
. . .Top: Pre July 1887
. . .Bottom: Post closure of 29 rue du Faubourg.

This gun is beautiful and interesting SN 15126 (if those back-action locks are original rebounding hammers). 15126 would date to early 1868. The patent for rebounding hammers was taken out in 1867 (1867, 09 Feb - Stanton patent 367). This gun dates to early 1868 per the Reilly dating chart. If original (not modified later), then this is the earliest Reilly with rebounding hammers and possibly one of the earliest datable UK shotguns with this innovation).

The engraving is clearly from this era...the forend is from this era. . the centerfire action is from the era in transition (previously discussed). .the address on the rib is appropriate (per 1868 opening in Paris). . .everything about this gun says it is original.. .and at the time it was clearly a gun ordered with cutting edge technology.

https://www.gunstar.co.uk/reilly-e-m-co-12-bore-gauge-side-by-side/Shotguns/1692229

A 12b E. M. Reilly & Co bolstered action hammer gun with jones rotary under lever, rebounding locks, steel butt plate & bolted fore end
30” x 2 1/2” cylinder bored barrels
Proofed 18.5
14 3/8” stock
6lbs 12ozs
£4750
Roy Martin Gunsmith

This is the note received from UK:
"The serial number is 15126. The gun has been in dad’s private collection for god knows how many years, he has fully renovated the gun in house aswell as boring jointing and nitro proofing and is in as new condition and more than likely has never been shot since completion. It definitely isn’t a converted pinfire. The rib is engraved New Oxford Street, London"

You posted an illustration of Guidicini here Gene
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=617038&page=4

He won in 1883 and again in 1890
https://books.google.com/books?id=Vmg9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA62&lpg

Gran Prix du Casino
1882 – George Lorillard, New York
1883 – H.J. Roberts
1884 – H.R.H. Comte de Montecupo
1885 – M. De Dorlodot
1886 – S. Guidicini
1887 – Comte Salina
1888 – not recorded
1889 – V. Dicks
1890 – S. Guidicini
1891 – Count Luca Cajoli
1892 – Count Trauttsmandorff

Prix de Monte Carlo
1883 – S. Guidicini

Thanks Dr. Drew. Yes S. Guidicini finished 2nd in 1885, 1st in 1886 using a Reilly with the 2 rue du Faubourg address on the rib, and 1st again in 1890 but not with a Reilly in the Casino championship. There is a chapter in the history on Reilly and pigeon guns.
. .XI: Reilly - 1880's,
. . . . .75. 1869-1890: Reilly and Pigeon Guns. (see p. 95 above).

In fact the ads for Guidicini's victory at the Casino shoot led to the search for whether the Reilly shop at Faubourg actually existed. See above.

And revisiting that line after two years was a pleasure and shows how excellent a historical piece it was. Like so many posts on this site, there is not another thing like it on the internet.