doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Carl Otto in Laucha an der Unstrut - Ruban

Posting for William Glass - note that C. Otto in Laucha is found on a Flintlock with a conversion to percussion(circa 1760 Hermann Hist.) & the subject 16 bore double has German proofmarks but I could not find any info on Carl / Karl Otto of Laucha an der Ustrut??



Fantastic Pattern Welded top rib & tubes - Acid Etched Twist / Ruban



Very unique cheekpiece....

















If those initials are >>EB<< I would know who it was.....



Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Possibly a >>Donor Gun<< with those holes in the locks?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I am highly confident that rma Emil Barthelmes Zella St. Blasiis was the culprit on this double.

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=616289

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=255146

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Little if any info is to be found on ole Carl/Karl Otto......



>>C. Otto, Laucha/Thüringen um 1760. Achtkantiger, leicht gestauchter und siebenfach gezogener Lauf im Kaliber 17,5 mm mit eingeschobener Visierung. Über dem Pistonsockel signiert "C. Otto a: Laucha". Jagdlich fein reliefiert geschnittenes, aptiertes Perkussionsschloss mit Nadelstecher. Beschnitzter Nussholzvollschaft mit Schuber und Hornnase. Floral und jagdlich reliefierte Messinggarnitur, der originale Ladestock aus Holz mit Horndopper und Messingschuh. Durch Reinigung gut zu verbessernde, hochwertige Büchse. Länge 107,5 cm.<<

Image & text lifted from here:

https://www.hermann-historica-archi...0369&t=temartic_S_GB&db=S-50.txt

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Maybe there is another City named Laucha somewhere????

\

I believe this to be the Z-M datecode and is >>4.07<<(April 1907) as it is in the correct location and would suppert EB making it....

So a mechanic named Carl Otto made guns from 1760 to 1907 and he isn't listed anywhere. I am missing something somewhere. Maybe he had an alias.....

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

This gun is all #'s matching. The number 407 is stamped on all the metal. Etched deep enough you could make music rubbing your credit card against the barrel. I have no idea you made this underlever but it is nice. Bought from a collector estate that did not know anything about it. Any information or History would be nice.
Bill

After Thinking about it the date code seems right because not only is the 407 under the forearm it is also stamped ahead of it in the same place between barrels.

If you could use the >>Macro<< mode on your phone or snap a foto thru a magnifier, it may reveal a decimal between the >>4.07<<. If so, it would be a datecode. If not, then a serial number.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

looked at and there are no decimal point and the marks are the same as you referenced above on the flats.
Bill

Repair early on in the prooflaw period.








Yes, Emil Barthelmes Zella St. Blasiis made this.



I realize it would be really odd to have a gun with serial number >>407<< being dated >>4.07<< but just from an image perspective and considering the spacing between the 4 & the 07, it just appears there is a dot but it could easily be an optical illusion.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I look closely at the easier ones to see. you are right about the spacing on at least this one one the barrel and the fact there are 2 of them on the barrel did not seem right.
Will take real close look at both of them tomorrow as on the road today.
Bill

Um, interesting piece of info that there are 2(two) >>407<< on the tubeset & that goes a long way in defining the one near the forend lung/hanger being a Zella - Mehlis datecode of >>4.07<<. So yes, a repair in April of 1907 but the smokepole dates to an earlier period with the Jones Underlever lockup & long metal forend contrivance. But the pattern of the tube is just stellar.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Büchsenmacher Emil Barthelmes hung out his gunmaking shingle on 08.24.1854 and celebrated 50 years in 1904, just 3 years before the subject smokepole rolled out. EB advertised as „Waffenfabrik & Waffenlager “.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Thank You Raimey
Nice to know the history of the guns and who made them.
Bill

Yes, it was made pre-1893(1891 New Rules) and then had a repair in 1907, probably by EB again. Again, the pattern welded tubes are just stellar.

I just do wish more info on Carl/Karl Otto was surface?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

A couple more foto enlargements of the numbers forward of the forend hanger/lug where the Z-M datecode could be found prior to 1911.




Serbus,

Raimey
rse

But there's still a lack of info so there must be two German cities named Laucha and C. Otto hailed from Laucha in Thüringen(Gotha) being 80 Km North of Zella-Mehlis by highway and not Laucha an der Unstrut, which is say 120 Km East of Laucha in Thüringen(Gotha)?? Maybe he used a Z-M address and got mixed up with the Otto mechanics in Zella - Mehlis?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

It's good practice to double-check suspect markings, especially serial numbers. The uneven spacing you noticed on the barrel is a red flag, and having two serial numbers is definitely unusual. Take your time tomorrow and examine both numbers closely in good lighting. You can also search online for resources on identifying fake gun serial numbers specific to the firearm you're looking at.