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Re: WIN21 People tend to like this type of discussion Bob Cash #649371 07/25/24 03:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,592 Likes: 128 Left Coast Bob Cash Sidelock
Bob Cash Sidelock Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,592 Likes: 128 Left Coast	Originally Posted by Bob Cash Good evening Jon. I’m afraid I must respectfully disagree with you. These ARE magic super guns. Built in America, by Americans, for Americans. The above is my most recent, a 16 gauge Tournament Skeet. The previous owner vetted me before he would sell me the gun. 90 % admirable original condition. Embarrassingly, the above may soon be untrue. Tournament 12 gauge Things sometimes break, we deal with it.
	1 member likes this: Jimmy W

Re: WIN21 People tend to like this type of discussion Marks_21 #649372 07/25/24 03:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 11,454 Likes: 484 keith Sidelock
keith Sidelock Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 11,454 Likes: 484	Originally Posted by Drew Hause This follow-up I submitted yesterday, to the repeated attempt to upstage Dewey Vicknair, must have gotten lost or something. So I'll try again. The new example pictured above is a bit better, and is beginning to approach Crescent Gun Co. metal fitting and finishing quality. However, if you are going to accuse Dewey of negative cherry picking, you should at least choose some nice cherries as examples. I don't recall ever seeing a Crescent, N.R. Davis, Worthington, or any other cheap double with a screw slot as far off-center as the set screw on the left. The screw slot in the previous photo looks like it was cut with a hack saw. Screws on field grade Baikals look better. Cheap Chinese toys from the Nixon era had nicer screws. And look at the difference in the length of those ejectors! The peened ends suggest poor quality steel or a need for heat treatment. If I made a gun screw like that and posted a picture of it here, I would be laughed off this forum, and rightfully so. I'd have my Liberal Gal Fan Club here saving it, and reposting it for all time to mock me. It is remarkable that anyone would post that image as an example of fine gun craftsmanship. I might also give that a "Like"... if I was a know-it-all who knows very little. Stick to what you're good at... even if little more than collecting pictures and old advertisements. Leave the gun critiques to someone who actually has skill, extensive hands-on shotgun knowledge, and a discerning eye. A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

Re: WIN21 People tend to like this type of discussion Bob Cash #649373 07/25/24 03:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 9,948 Likes: 871 mpls, mn. Ted Schefelbein Sidelock
Ted Schefelbein Sidelock Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 9,948 Likes: 871 mpls, mn.	Originally Posted by Bob Cash Originally Posted by Bob Cash Good evening Jon. I’m afraid I must respectfully disagree with you. These ARE magic super guns. Built in America, by Americans, for Americans. The above is my most recent, a 16 gauge Tournament Skeet. The previous owner vetted me before he would sell me the gun. 90 % admirable original condition. Embarrassingly, the above may soon be untrue. Tournament 12 gauge Things sometimes break, we deal with it. Happens to the best of ‘em. Happens to the alleged best of ‘em, more. Best, Ted
	1 member likes this: keith

Re: WIN21 People tend to like this type of discussion Marks_21 #649397 07/26/24 11:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 215 Likes: 53 Utah 12boreman Sidelock
12boreman Sidelock Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 215 Likes: 53 Utah	I have nothing against people who like or think the M21 is some sort of magic gun. I don't care for them personally. I think a quality English gun puts them to shame. I would rather shoot a Parker or Lefever when I choose the Americana type. I know quite a few people from various gun clubs who own M21's and they can't hit the broad side of a barn with one. I verified this as I couldn't hit the same barn with their guns either! I average 98 at skeet with modern and most sxs guns in a 12 gauge. Gun fit was not the issue either. I can only deduce from my limited experience with them that they were either poorly regulated or the shooting gods were against me. The 21 might be the only gun I can't shoot proficiently with. I guess that is why I don't have one in my collection. Sa la vie. "As for me and my house we will shoot Damascus!"

Re: WIN21 People tend to like this type of discussion Marks_21 #649414 07/26/24 08:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,505 Likes: 345 AZ but dreaming of KS Drew Hause Sidelock
Drew Hause Sidelock Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,505 Likes: 345 AZ but dreaming of KS	Dewey's site again https://vicknairgunsmithing.blogspot.com/2016/01/an-unbiased-look-at-design-of-american.html This is the full size image enhanced and rotated to get the SN which looks like 8685 which would be about 1935 The screws and barrel stop have been removed and the lumps have been separated; there is obviously no solder. Click on Dewey's brief video and he moves the 2 lumps back & forth demonstrating the dovetail adds little to the strength of the lump. https://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home

Re: WIN21 People tend to like this type of discussion Marks_21 #649415 07/26/24 08:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,505 Likes: 345 AZ but dreaming of KS Drew Hause Sidelock
Drew Hause Sidelock Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,505 Likes: 345 AZ but dreaming of KS	There may be changes in the quality of the joining over time. Estimated DOM are per Schwing's SN listing. 1934 looks good 1947 1949 1951 with a significant gap filled with solder The previously posted 1954 https://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home

Re: WIN21 People tend to like this type of discussion Marks_21 #649434 07/27/24 09:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,505 Likes: 345 AZ but dreaming of KS Drew Hause Sidelock
Drew Hause Sidelock Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,505 Likes: 345 AZ but dreaming of KS	1933 catalog. Be patient; it takes a moment to download https://dspace.nplg.gov.ge/bitstream/1234/83515/1/Winchester_Model_21.pdf More here https://bluepike.tripod.com/Model21/21catalogs.htm https://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home

Re: WIN21 People tend to like this type of discussion Marks_21 #649435 07/27/24 10:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 9,948 Likes: 871 mpls, mn. Ted Schefelbein Sidelock
Ted Schefelbein Sidelock Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 9,948 Likes: 871 mpls, mn.	Advertising, Drew. You can say anything you want: posted image Then, in the future, when everyone involved is dead, you don’t have to listen to the laughter. Best, Ted

Re: WIN21 People tend to like this type of discussion Marks_21 #649440 07/27/24 12:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,505 Likes: 345 AZ but dreaming of KS Drew Hause Sidelock
Drew Hause Sidelock Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,505 Likes: 345 AZ but dreaming of KS	20 pages of entertainment, including thoughts on the CSMC M21 https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=508999&page=all I found a thread from 2007 with Ted, Bill and JIMMY (!) debating the hanger issues https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=57087 and another heartbreak https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=453348&page=all https://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home

Re: WIN21 People tend to like this type of discussion Bob Cash #649442 07/27/24 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,114 Likes: 144 Coffee Pot Boulevard Jimmy W Sidelock
Jimmy W Sidelock Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,114 Likes: 144 Coffee Pot Boulevard	Originally Posted by Bob Cash Originally Posted by Bob Cash Good evening Jon. I’m afraid I must respectfully disagree with you. These ARE magic super guns. Built in America, by Americans, for Americans. The above is my most recent, a 16 gauge Tournament Skeet. The previous owner vetted me before he would sell me the gun. 90 % admirable original condition. Embarrassingly, the above may soon be untrue. Tournament 12 gauge Things sometimes break, we deal with it. Beautiful!! Like I always said: The ONLY gun that the good Lord put his whole heart and soul into! Last edited by Jimmy W; 07/27/24 02:32 PM.

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