doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Holts- not that I really needed them

There were 2 similar guns and the one that you mention had the lower pre-sale estimate. Perhaps the bidder had held back on the first thinking he’d snap the second up cheaper and then found he had to fight for it.

Not surprisingly English .410 SXS made about 3 times top estimate.

What did lot no. 1705 (Wesley Richards 12 bore 30 damascus barreled BLE) bring in price? It is a beautiful gun of of late 1800s but with one barrel at .020" wall thickness which kept me from bidding.

Regards;
Stephen Howell

3,500

I wanted 1755.

Ksaurers1;

Thanks.

Here is what the magnificent Lot No. 1705 was:

https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/as...++1705+&refno=++215797&saletype=

Thanks for posting the catalogue entry for that lovely Westley Richards which I see made over 4 times top estimate despite a .020 MWT.

It is a pity that the Holts catalogue and results disappear (for those of us who do not subscribe to their archive service) so swiftly after sale closes.

As an owner of some British boxlocks, and someone who should probably not buy any more and certainly does not “need” to, I should be re-assured that the nicer examples are now selling at prices more commensurate with their quality if not the cost of building new examples.

However although they say “a rising tide lifts all boats” I suspect that the examples I have picked up for a song at Southams in the past will probably stay stuck in the muddy bottom.

Parabola;

I am pleased to find another person/shooter who understands what a best quality BLE looks like. The workmanship that went into this lot no. 1705 was equal to what would have been done on a best quality SLE. The damascus barrels pattern was superb. Whoever did the browning of those barrels is a master craftsman.

Nick Holt appears to be an astute salesman and he seems to know that very fine damascus barrels are now back in demand. I have been watching the results of his sales for years and each auction of his I pick out about 10 guns to watch the results---which helps me understand what the real market price of British guns are in the UK vs. the overpricing of them here in the USA. My picks for this 29July2024 auction were Lot Nos. 1705; 1757; 1376; 1381; 1104; 1108; 797; and 1850. If anyone has the realized pricing on the last 6 of these lots please post them---especially lot no. 797.

I was late in looking at the realized pricing of this July auction and was not able to record the prices of the guns I was tracking.

Nick seems to undervalue the auction estimate of certain guns to draw interest and this lot no. 1705 of the 29 July 2024 auction and lot no. 1752 of the 28 Nov 2023 are good examples of his under valuation strategy for damascus barreled shotguns. Here is a video of the lot no. 1752 of 28 Nov 2023 where Nick estimated the auction price range of £300-500 where the gun actually sold for £1600 plus commission.



Kind Regards;
Stephen Howell

Dear Stephen,

I think this one qualifies as a “Best” BLE.

Built by Edwinson Green in 1895 with intercepting sears, Whitworth chopper lump barrels for Tudor Crawshay (hence the Tudor Roses on the fences) it cost £35 plus 3 guineas extra for the Whitworth barrels at a time when £38.3s.0d would have bought a good quality sidelock.

Stephen,

I sent you a PM.

Ken

Yes, it is without a best quality BLE.

I would like to know the engraver. The fine English scroll is executed in the period style with both single and double cuts and done very well. The scroll work reminds me of the Churchill house style of the same time frame. The addition of the dogs and birds by the engraver surrounding by the fine English scroll is very unusual and I do not think I have ever seen this style before. The Tudor rose application on the fence balls is one that I have never before seen as well.

Are the barrel makers/filers initials stamped on the barrels? How long are the barrels and whose ejector works does the gun have?

Kind Regards;
Stephen Howell

I really don't follow the results of British Gun Auctions much, except for what I read here. We have seen that the hammer prices for British doubles have been generally depressed for years, and some here find relative bargains even when factoring in the high costs of auction and importation fees. And sometimes, we read that these guns sell for several times the pre-auction estimates, which may be a marketing ploy by the auctioneer to generate interest. So this leads me to ask if it is only the prices of double shotguns that have fallen in recent years, or if the current conditions have also led to depressed prices for other types of firearms? I ask this because we also read here that other guns such as pump shotguns often sell for near give-away prices... if they sell at all.

If that is indeed the case, it seems that the root cause may well be the anti-gun climate in Great Britain, and the highly restrictive gun laws that make gun ownership there much more cumbersome than here in the U.S.

That would also explain why these British doubles may seem overpriced here, when in reality, they are still bargains in terms of their average overall quality as compared to many vintage American doubles. Selling prices here are a function of what the market will bear, and it is undeniable that many of these fine quality guns sell for less than what their engraving alone would cost today. It appears to be a sad fact that the comparative Fire Sale prices in Great Britain has permitted many American double gun buyers the opportunity to purchase high quality British doubles at prices that they otherwise may not have found so affordable 25 or 30 years ago.

There have always been regional differences in demand and prices for many collectible items. But it's somewhat tragic to think that our gain has come at the expense of British gun owners who were driven out of their sport and gun owning passion by the same anti-gun forces that continue to threaten our 2nd Amendment Rights. That's something to think about in this election year. And I can only hope my post shows up sometime before Election Day.