doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com MAUSER RIFLE BY L. SCHIWY 8x60 Magnum

Just won this rifle. Should be here to me, soon. I want to reload it and have the load data in my Lyman. I am not sure about the letters following the 8x60 S, etc I am open to other loads. I plan to buy the dies. I think I can resize 30-06 brass. I do plan to slug the bore to get the right bullets.

https://bid.poulinauctions.com/FINE-FULL-STOCK-MAUSER-RIFLE-BY-L-SCHIWY-WITH_i54232863

Ideas? Opinions? Advice?

Thanks, Bill

Schiwy headed up the Diana Hunt Club in Berlin. The >>S<< designation just means the tube was cut for the larger 8mm bullet/0.323". It was an attempt between the Wars to differentiate between the 0.318"(IR) & 0.323"(IRS) diameters. The bullet weights were typically different too.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

>>
"Great Lion Battle of Leipzig" circa WWI???

F.W. Vandrey cornered the market in Hamburg by being probably the largest and was “the” outifitter in Hamburg. Up until circa WWI, various makers outside of Suhl/Zella-Mehlis sourced their components and completed their customer’s order in house or purchased longarms “in the white” from Suhl/Zella-Mehlis. Post WWI and after a devastating loss of craftsmen due to the conflict, the whole of Germany sourced the craftsmen of Suhl/Zella-Mehlis for their orders. Robert Schüler of Køln/Cologne appears to have been the contact to the sourcing of Suhl or due to family connections owned a shop there or an interest in a facility of another name. Ernst Steigleder of Berlin & Suhl is another strong possibility as early on he had a close working relationship with Sauer. My hats really off to this fella because I believe he had the funds and connections to obtain the rank of Hofbüchsenmacher, or some similar title, as evident by this photo of Ludwig Schiwy(2nd from the left) and Ernst Steigleder(2nd from the right) and others of the Diana hunting club of Berlin, probably at a competition shoot.



lifted from Fredik Franzen article

But Ernst Steigleder chose to go it alone solely on his own name and merit. In my book there’s a lot to be said about that.

Ludwig Schiwy at some point owned the F.W. Vandrey & Company firm and it’s name is seen on examples and scopes peddled by J. Nowotny and many others. Ernst Steigleder heirs and assigns give Ludwig Schiwy as being born in the 1880s and I guess him to have obtained his master’s brief before WWI. The interval between the wars seems to be the peak of Ludwig Schiwy’s career with Hermann Goering and his inlaws as clients, had at least one fixed sight patent and looks to have departed this world sometime in the late 1950s in West(?) Berlin. Post WWII and as a consequence of WWII Ludwig Schiwy was reduced to peddling airguns and ammo.

Stahl & Berger was also of Hamburg and of course sourced such craftsmen of Suhl such as E. Schmidt & Habermann, Kerner indirectly thru the F.W. Vandrey & Company firm and I’m sure others. Post WWII it appears that most of the craftsmen of Stahl & Berger migrated to Hartmann(Gerhard) and Weiß(Otto). Hartmann, Weiß & Martin Hagn are somehow connected to the F.W. Vandrey & Company as well as Stahl & Berger. Hartmann looks to have been on his Journeyman walk-about relatively close and either worked at F.W. Vandrey & Company and/or some area or hunting preserve referred to as “Büma on the Höltigbaum”( http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%25C3%25B6ltigbaum&ei=G6inSrnDL4eMtgeJ-b2kCA&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DH%25C3%25B6ltigbaum%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG ) while Otto Weiß was at Merkel in Suhl, Glaser in Zurich and on to Purdey’s in London with his walk-about after escaping East German in 1958 more than likely on a fast track Journeyman program similar to Mr. Dietrich Apel. In the early 1960s Ottow Weiß returned to German to found the business Hartmann & Weiß with his old buddy Gerhard Hartmann. 6 years later Peter Nelson of Purdey left Purdey to join Hartmann & Weiss and after 3 years returned to London to open a branch Hartmann & Weiss office. With that it seems as sourcing has become global and come full circle.<<


https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...;Words=schiwy&Search=true#Post160489

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I understand that the 8x60 cartridge was introduced, or became more popular, a result of a Treaty of Versailles prohibition that prevented German civilians from owning rifles chambered in the military 8x57 calibre.

It was a simple re-chambering job to make them legal.

The 8x60 S Magnum was a high-pressure cartridge and rifles chambered for it were especially proofed for the higher pressure. Ammunition for the rimmed version have the same straight knurling as proof cartridges to provide a tactile identification. I don't have any of the rimless version so I'm not sure if it is treated the same way. The 8x60 S was created after the Versailles Treaty to provide a way to rechamber 8x57 IS hunting rifles for a non-military cartridge, thereby keeping them legal. The 8x60 was created to provide a similar rechambering for 8x57I rifles as well. Rimmed versions (8x60 RS and 8x60 R) were loaded also and the 8x60 RS Magnum came along later, providing greatly increased ballistics when compared to the others. I believe commercial ammo for the 8x60 S is available from Graf's.
Mike

I owned a 1924 M-S in 8x60 Mag. I indeed use resized 30-06 brass for my reloads, but I happened on to a small cache of RWS ammo load with cupro/nickle bullets. I can’t recall the term for the bullet design but the radius of the pointed bullet terminated at a sharp ledge at the major diameter of the bullet. When shooting target paper the holes were cut similar to a wad cutter hole. At any rate they were plenty spicy,accurate and exhibited an acrid odor when fired.

I think that is the bullet RWS called the Torpedo Stopring.

I found it……H Mantel with cutting edge.