doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com H and H, what do you think?

Kutter, I always take time to read your posts. Thanks for the effort and help. Box Action ??? Not sure what that means, but sure a gun brought in by H and H. I have never seen one of more poor quality.

A Webley screw grip action, no problem there. 14" stock, no problem there because it was ordered at 13". Stock is probably not cut. Near cylinder, both sides, no problem there, since it was ordered that way. It is a bit odd that the "out of factory" origin is not mentioned in the order or on the gun. Forend can be shaped back to original shape when the wood is removed for refinishing. Ed1 bid $1500 then dropped out. I don't know if that's a problem or not. It's going to be a nice gun when the woodwork is done.

The factory letter calls it a box action sidelock. I wonder if the factory order might have said bar action sidelock. Box action sidelock is a new term to me. In one picture I see the probable original Anson forend original push rod, replaced when the beavertail was added.

I’ve seen far more beaver tails that couldn’t be shaped into a splinter than those that could. Be nice if the original front wood came with it.

I’d have to know a lot more about the condition of the bores before even contemplating it. I guess there are guys that get all weak in the knees at the thought of a Webley produced gun, either box lock or side lock, with H&H marked on it, but, I’m not one of them.

Ed dropped out because he doesn’t hunt or shoot, and he would have to pay for the work that went into making it sellable, and he would lose. That simple.

Kirby Hoyt has an Army & Navy sidelock, built by Webley, well executed full coverage engraving, stocked to the fences, barrel lump up inside the action, at $2900. It needs a pad, but it has plenty of wall, good bores and could be used as is, if you have really long arms.

12 gauge doubles in using condition, and needing work are not exactly a hot commodity.

Full disclosure, a long time ago, I went down the side lock rabbit hole with an H&H of higher pedigree than this one. A pre Royal single trigger gun that taught me the meaning of “clapped out”, and, that anything can be fixed, but, some things shouldn’t be fixed.

I came away knowing how the early Holland single trigger was supposed to work (mine didn’t) and sold the gun as a project, same way I bought it.

Live and learn.

Best,
Ted

Goes by the name of Lucky.....

Both of the original order documents refer to a "bar action". "Box action" is a result of the office misreading the original order documents. Ted brings up some good points, I think. However, the gun in question is not a Webley made Army and Navy, it is a Webley made Holland and Holland. Further, it is not a 12, it is a 20, and it is not a failing single trigger gun, it is a working double trigger gun. I kind of like this clapped out 20 gauge, maybe for a bit less money.

Check out the exacting wood to metal fit:



I’d say all bets are off on if it works or not.

The Army and Navy Webley is finished to a higher degree, and is a better buy.

By far.

Best,
Ted

I agree with Ted, except he forgot to make note of the metal-to-metal fit too. Ted is also likely 100% correct that attempting to cut the beavertail forend down to a splinter wouldn't work. It is probable that there would be bad gaps in the inletting where the wood meets the barrels if cut down to a splinter.

I see better metal fit between the frame and locks or frame and trigger plate on many U.S. machine made guns like Lefevers or L.C. Smiths than on this "H & H". You don't need to enlarge the photos to see the gaps. I'm not saying it's parts gun garbage, but $4475.00 plus S&H is way high in current condition.

I wonder how much additional it would cost to whittle and checker a new forend, recut the buttstock checkering, add a leather covered pad, and refinish it to make it more presentable? Then there's that horribly matching buttstock extension. Removing it would make a big change in the stock pitch, and I think it would cost roughly $800.00 to hide it with fake wood grain. L.O.P. is already pretty short too.

Looks like a deep money pit to me, but there are lots of gun guys who are able to somehow justify getting deep under water. Hell, there are even gun guys who are able to justify voting for anti-gunners, which is far wackier.