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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Apr 2018
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Burrard 1931 edition, Vol 2, The Cartridge - Appendix IV pp 270-278.
Last edited by greener4me; 03/07/25 05:45 AM. Reason: added detail
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,246 Likes: 163
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,246 Likes: 163 |
I am not opposed to roll crimping, but if you are using a MEC, either single stage or progressive and don't want to alter the press or set up a separate station to roll crimp, you can simply insert an overshot card before crimping. I use a 20 ga over shot card in 12 ga shells. This was detailed in Shooting Sportsmen many years ago. Which issue of SS was this article in? I’d like to find a copy. Was it a Tom Roster article?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 634 Likes: 127
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 634 Likes: 127 |
eeb, I wish I could tell you, but I lent the mag to someone and never got it back. I am guessing it was at least 15 years ago.
This ain't a dress rehearsal , Don't Let the Old Man IN
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Joined: May 2024
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Boxlock
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Boxlock
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I am not opposed to roll crimping, but if you are using a MEC, either single stage or progressive and don't want to alter the press or set up a separate station to roll crimp, you can simply insert an overshot card before crimping. I use a 20 ga over shot card in 12 ga shells. This was detailed in Shooting Sportsmen many years ago. Which issue of SS was this article in? I’d like to find a copy. Was it a Tom Roster article? I'm pretty sure I have the article at home. I'll check and let you know. It was not a Tom Roster article.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460 |
Maj. Sir Gerald Burrard, The Modern Shotgun, 1955, Vol. II, “The Cartridge”, Appendix VI, p. 284
Webley Pendulum Gun. Taper from cone to barrel bore .735” to .733” over 12”; .733” bore to choke .690”
Pressure converted using Burrard’s estimated Long Tons/ Sq. Inch Lead Crusher Pressure (Cp) to PSI (pound-force per square inch):
(Cp x 1.5) - .5 = TSI, TSI X 2240 = PSI.
…………………..............……………………………….…1 inch………6 inches….%
“E.C.” No. 3 3 Dr.Eq. 1 1/16 oz. shot…………...7,750……….3,786……49
“Schultze” 3 Dr.Eq. 1 1/16 oz. shot…….…….….6,842……….4,323……63
Smokeless Diamond 3 Dr.Eq. 1 1/16 oz.shot….8,758……….3,685……42
Smokeless Diamond 3 Dr.Eq. 1 oz. shot……..….8,355……….4,021……48
Sporting Ballistite 3 Dr.Eq. 1 1/16 oz. shot…..9,901……….4,088….…41
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679 Likes: 24 |
Drew/ Great information; many thanks! Gil
[IMG]
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1 member likes this:
Drew Hause |
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Joined: May 2024
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Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: May 2024
Posts: 17 Likes: 3 |
I am not opposed to roll crimping, but if you are using a MEC, either single stage or progressive and don't want to alter the press or set up a separate station to roll crimp, you can simply insert an overshot card before crimping. I use a 20 ga over shot card in 12 ga shells. This was detailed in Shooting Sportsmen many years ago. Which issue of SS was this article in? I’d like to find a copy. Was it a Tom Roster article? I'm pretty sure I have the article at home. I'll check and let you know. It was not a Tom Roster article. Sept/Oct 2003 issue has the article "Loading the Short Shell"
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,785 Likes: 673
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,785 Likes: 673 |
Maj. Sir Gerald Burrard, The Modern Shotgun, 1955, Vol. II, “The Cartridge”, Appendix VI, p. 284
Webley Pendulum Gun. Taper from cone to barrel bore .735” to .733” over 12”; .733” bore to choke .690”
Pressure converted using Burrard’s estimated Long Tons/ Sq. Inch Lead Crusher Pressure (Cp) to PSI (pound-force per square inch):
(Cp x 1.5) - .5 = TSI, TSI X 2240 = PSI.
…………………..............……………………………….…1 inch………6 inches….%
“E.C.” No. 3 3 Dr.Eq. 1 1/16 oz. shot…………...7,750……….3,786……49
“Schultze” 3 Dr.Eq. 1 1/16 oz. shot…….…….….6,842……….4,323……63
Smokeless Diamond 3 Dr.Eq. 1 1/16 oz.shot….8,758……….3,685……42
Smokeless Diamond 3 Dr.Eq. 1 oz. shot……..….8,355……….4,021……48
Sporting Ballistite 3 Dr.Eq. 1 1/16 oz. shot…..9,901……….4,088….…41 Preacher, in this shotgun barrel pressure data for long obsolete powders, we see two 3 Dram Equiv. loads for Smokeless Diamond powder. It seems odd that there is claimed to be a greater pressure drop at 6" for the heavier 1 1/16 oz. shot load than the lighter 1 oz. load with the same powder charge. Did you notice that, and do you have an explanation? The disparity seems to be greater than a normal Standard Deviation for equal loads, let alone equal powder loads with different shot weights.
Voting for anti-gun Democrats is dumber than giving treats to a dog that shits on a Persian Rug
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460 |
A summary of Burrard's studies are on p. 296, and each test was of 10 shells. I did the Long Tons to transducer PSI conversion using his formula again, and confirmed those numbers. Ballistite was a dense and rapid burning smokeless powder the ballistics of which possibly correlate better with today's powders 1928 ![[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]](https://photos.smugmug.com/Shotshells-and-pressures/Pressure-data/i-v7DwKZn/0/KDz3NMwspJ7zv2h4GStL3m3CjJx7T23rZBQkRvR5m/M/DuPontOval2-M.jpg)
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,719 Likes: 1355
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,719 Likes: 1355 |
I have a really nice S x S 12 GA by Heym, made in the 30s, as original with 2 1/2" chambers, according to my chamber gauge. Forcing cones are about 3/4". I only shoot low pressure loads in my 12s (less than 6k, 3/4 oz).But they are 2 3/4". Is that safe and unlikely to damage the barrels? Barrels marked "Grade 2E Krupp Fluid Steel Barrels". Thank you! Gil We’re getting to the dreaded “ad nauseam “ part. Go shoot your gun. Best, Ted
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