doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers

Photos of these two percussion guns have been posted by the Auction house after some correspondence. These will be posted below because there are so few photos of Reilly's from this era. . .engraving, serial numbers, fonts, etc. that they can be helpful in understanding early Reilly's. In the case of SN 162. . .this is the sole existing long gun from the period 1828- to about 1838.

https://www.easyliveauction.com/cat...ebruary-furniture-viewing-by-a-lot-1239/
14 bore SN 162, the oldest known Reilly long gun (in fact the only long gun with Holborn Bars on the rib) in existence previously sold at Holts 2008 and again by Holts via proxibid 2014 (Sold for £500): This SN would have been made in 1829. The engraving is quite crude. The Holborn Bars and J.C. Reilly font is in old "Black" English: Sold for £190.






https://www.easyliveauction.com/cat...ebruary-furniture-viewing-by-a-lot-1237/
10 bore previously sold by Holtis via proxibid in 2014 (Sold for £800) No visible SN. With "Reilly" on the side-plates it may have been sold after 1840 though this is not a settled matter; it could be earlier. Without a SN it may have just been marketed. The engraving is consistent with the period but is crude:

In the dating chart the last extant Reilly pistol with a serial number is 1292 a miniature pocket pistol which would date to 1837 (and there is some question whether that is a Reilly number). Today, however, there is a pepperbox just posted on Guninternational with J.C. Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London address and a serial number 1271. It has Birmingham proof-marks.

This should be a genuine Reilly serial number. As such it can be a very early marker on the quality of engraving being done at 316 High Holborn, even if Reilly didn't actually make all the elements of the pistol (he probably built it using components). It also helps cement in the approximate date Reilly stopped serial numbering pistols, 1837.

Does it hold up with pepperbox history? The seller using our data (which he got a bit wrong) dates it to 1840. The popular pepperbox as we know it was invented in the early 1830's and in 1837 a Belgian gunsmith refined it. It was built in several versions for years and since most of the parts were machine made, it was relatively cheap. Thus I believe history will support identifying this gun as a genuine Reilly serial numbered pistol, quite a find:; if someone, who is an expert on pepperboxes, can further refine the year based on features of the handgun, would much appreciate the information.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-c-reilly-of-london.cfm?gun_id=102993525








As a comparison, here is a pepperbox - J.C. Reilly and 316 High Holborn - but with no SN. This "hammerless" design originated in Belgium in 1837; This one is a "Cooper's Patent" gun - John Rock Cooper, Birmingham gunsmith working from 1836 - 1863, patented this design in 1843:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...uykPbxqjba3KwOyakEQWF2efl1tjmElPhH_ouGi4

This wreck of a Reilly rifle, SN 6155 is causing problems with the dating chart. This has been discussed above and in the history but it sure looks like there was a numbering series starting around 4500 and extending to at least now 6150 (the JC Reilly "5000" series). It is assumed these are JC Reilly numbers. 6155 may have been finished after the move to New Oxford street (SN 5991 has the New Oxford Street address). This can no longer be ignored or characterized as "outliers." Hopefully more guns will come to light to help define this better.
..4573 - J.C. Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London.
..5512 - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316, High Holborn now 502 Oxford Street, London
..5580 - Joseph Charles Reilly, 316, High Holborn, London;
..5759 - Reilly, No address;
..5991 - Reilly, New Oxford Street, London;
..6155 - Reilly, No legible address;

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/...lot-37546e5a-550f-4b7c-a0a9-b1ea011c1bd9
REILLY; a 19th century .550 percussion cap sporting musket with 24" octagonal barrel, the lock plate inscribed with the maker's details and foliate scrollwork, mounted on a chequered walnut stock with steel furniture including patch box, overall length 101cm.
Condition Report:
Overall poor condition, would make ideal restoration project, surface pitting visible throughout, lacking ramrod and part of the furniture is also missing, SN on the tang, 6155, no serial number on the underside of the barrel, no address visable

Holts is advertising a 12 bore Reilly pin-fire SN 13394 (1864) with a grip-safety using center-break "hammer-cam-lift" mechanism.
https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/as...++2113+&refno=++227106&saletype=

Diggory Hadoke just sent pictures of a Reilly w/o out additional information but which probably is the Holt's gun. I've never seen such a mechanism. Can anyone identify it?

Looks like (A) a Joseph Needham patent side-lever fastener (rotating bolt single bite snap action, self half-opening), patent 1544 of 1862, or (B) a J. Smith of Birmingham side-lever, patent no. 3171 of 1863. However, from the shape of the bite, I'm pretty confident it is the Needham action. There should be a patent use number somewhere on the gun.

Thanks Stephen. I've written Holt's to see if there is a PUN. Needham's patent it almost certainly is. I'll post Holt's answer here. And sorry about the political rants - Looks like there's nothing to be done but try to ignore it. Gene

Edit: Holt's has replied. Their photos show their gun is indeed identical to Diggory's pictures. Interesting that it has a "Joseph Brazier Ashes" Action:
"I can't be sure if the photos Diggory sent to you are this gun as I haven't seen them, however photos are attached. As you can see it does seem to conform to the Needham patent 1544 of 1862 however there is no use number marked on the gun. The action bar is only marked 'JOSEPH BRAZIER ASHES.' and '13394'."

This single barrel top lever rook rifle converted to .410 shotgun is interesting. The SN on the barrel is 31111 - 1889 E.M Reilly at 277 Oxford Street. There is a number on the tang. Holt's cannot decipher it but it certainly looks like 7330 or possibly 7530. If this is correct, this would be an 1849 J.C. Reilly rifle in the "7000" series.
-- if so it was possibly converted to a center break shotgun in 1889 then later rebored? Is this possible? We've seen several such Reilly percussion shotguns converted to center break. I'll post pictures of 31111/7330 and a J.C. Reilly 7000 series rifle 7801 with the 502 New Oxford St. address below for comparison purposes:
-- Reilly sometimes left off a digit in from of the SN. The engraving is surely post 1860's; so with the post 1881 address, it could have originally been 27330 - 1885; or it could be 17530 (17330 is extant) - 1871 with the barrel changed out later to 31111 and still later bored out to .410; It'd be interesting to see the proofs.)

https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/as...++6577C&refno=++225351&saletype=
E.M. REILLY & CO. .410 (SMOOTHBORED) CONVERTED TOPLEVER HAMMER ROOK & RABBIT RIFLE, serial no. 31111, circa 1880, serial number on barrel only, original number worn to obscurity, 25 3/4in. turned octagonal to round nitro reproved barrel, the breech-end engraved 'E.M. REILLY & CO. 277. OXFORD ST. LONDON.', 2 1/2in. chamber, bored approx. true cyl., carved fence, back-action lock with rebounding hammer, border and acanthus scroll engraving, retaining very slight traces of colour-hardening and finish, 14 1/2in. pistolgrip stock with pistolgrip cap, Hackett-type snap-on splinter fore-end with horn finial, weight 4lb. 4oz., in a handmade wooden case

Chapter IX, 50 deals with Reilly manufacturing the Green Brothers patent breech loading rifle which he used to try to win the interim breech loading contract with Arsenal which ultimately adopted the Snyder. This site has another one of these Reilly made Green Bros. breech loaders 15203 PUN #393 dated to circa Apr 1868.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...queryID=e1a841a6eb53b4f6fe6190265277fdfb


This seems to indicate that Reilly may have made this rifle in batches, perhaps trying to emulate a sort of mass production run.

Spring 1864 – Trials period: - at least 8 consequtive SN’s and PUN #’s
12002 - PUN #1 - (Experimental 1st gun using a modified Enfield, SN'd in 1861)
13326 - PUN #16 - (spring 1864)
13333 - PUN #23 - (spring 1864)

1865 – Trials period:
?XXXX - PUN #109 - (spring 1865?)
13884 - PUN #159 - (late summer 1865)

1867-68 – After acceptance of the Snyder-Enfield from Sep 1867 to April 1868 Reilly SN'd 440 guns, 215 of which were Green Bros breech loaders per the PUN numbers. (Since he was sole manufacturer of the gun, it's possible that some of the PUN's were bought by other London gun makers which of course would not have a Reilly SN. An extant gun sold by Hollis & Sons, PUN #554 is such an example.
14763 - PUN #177 - (Sep 1867)
15047 - PUN #325 - (Feb 1868)
15203 - PUN #393 - (Apr 1868)

Gene,

The top lever Reilly rook rifle, SN 31111 and 7330 is not a conversion from a a muzzle loader but one of the many externally similar Rook Rifles made in Birmingham for the London and provincial trade in the 1880’s and 1890’s.

I have examined 2 externally almost identical Holland and Holland Top lever side hammer Rook rifles. One was a J. Thomas Patent single bite action made by Thomas or Tipping and Lawden (Thomas was their works manager before he set up on his own).

The other had a double bolt biting into both front and rear lumps and was probably made by Webley.



Just to be different my May Greener .410 started life as a Thomas made .380 Rook Rifle bought in by Grerner in 1882. Although marked Thomas Patent it in fact had a double bolt and was noted as such in Greener’s records.

Thanks for the information, Sir! 31111 on the barrel might not be a Reilly SN. It should be the 4 digit number 7330? Reilly sold rook rifles for a long time; early on these were not serial numbered and were mostly Trantor products. Around 1880 Reilly expanded to selling ready-made guns off the rack. At this time likely his rook rifles like his boxlocks were made in Birmingham and finished in London. (Holt's did not mention proof marks).

There are a couple more Reilly rook rifles with 5 digit barrel SN’s on the barrels and 4 digit numbers on the tang. This has led to a reevaluation of several single barrel Rook rifles and there may need to be a chapter written about this. I’ll post this separately since thanks to Parabola there are now questions about these Reilly rook rifle serial numbers.