doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Heeren single shot in 6.5x57R

Does anyone have any experience reloading this caliber, especially with lead bullets?

HalfaDouble,
I have a drilling in that caliber, and I load for it, but not with lead bullets. It' not that I have anything against lead bullets, I just use them in other rifles. The 6.5x57R is a great caliber, I have taken several Whitetails with it and it seems to kill pretty much like a 257 Roberts. I didn't have any trouble loading it, I used RWS cases and American bullets. It is one of the German 6.5s that use .264" bullets like our standard. A friend of mine recently reported problems using S&B cases that have small primer pockets. He is an accomplished machinist and intends to bore them to .2095 from .206" with a mini boring bar. He tried a primer pocket uniformer, but was unsuccessful because the uniformer cuts only on the end and when forced in, it made the pocket oversized. If that is not your problem, I guess I jumped the gun.
Mike

Thanks, Mike. Does yours happen to have the bullet weight for which it was intended?

A Heerenbüchse is a very peculiar and slightly quaint-appearing gun (readers take notice of the also peculiar spelling, such as in the original query, for the inventor's family name was Heeren, adding later nobility titles; hence not a "Herrenbüchse" a.k.a. gentleman's rifle, although many happy buyers subsequently feel so promoted... ;-) ).
Humorous shooters might call it "an over-engineered reverse lever-action with falling block". Apart from Nagel & Menz in the Grand Duchy of Badenia as the original rights holders, the guns were later frequently made in Ferlach by various gunsmiths, at rather corresponding prices.

The cartridge, namely the 6,5x57 R as the rimmed sister of the 6,5x57 Mauser, but with a slightly too low CIP-set max pressure limit (!), is extensively treated in the venerable "Blue Bible" reloading handbook of RWS, last in its 9th edition 2002, which is also online accessible. The RWS propellants may however have changed somewhat in the meantime, and many German reloaders now anyhow prefer the Swiss RS powder.

The guns were never ever intended for black power, and the twist rate and groove depth might not be exactly conducive to the use of lead bullets.
A copper-clad (galvanized) or high gascheck lead bullet ("Kupferschuh") would be mandatory for any experiments, I surmise.
(1) The nitro cartridges initially had a 10 grams jacketed bullet weight,
(2) and lateron a light 6,0 grams SP was offered, with a straighter trajectory for wider mountain (or plains) shots on smaller cloven-hoof game, notably on chamois, and also for roe deer. As a comparison, the 6,5x57 (R) was used in Germany for hunting situations where the French used the 7x54 MAS-Fournier, and US-Americans the .25-06.
(3) Lateron, the sometime added 8,2 grams H-Mantel claimed a middle position between these two bullet weights.

Regards,
Carcano

HalfaDouble,
No, it is not marked. This is the drilling we rebuilt in Walter Grass' shop, and I wrote up for the "Waffenschmied" edition about drillings. We sleeved the original 7x57R barrel to 6.5x57R, using a Heym barrel blank with the standard twist rate, suitable for the 156gr. bullet. However, I sighted in for my handloads using 129 gr. bullets. Your rifle likely has a barrel that will stabilize a 156-160 gr. bullet also, and since velocity with lead bullets is limited, you will likely be more satisfied with the heavier ones. I am given to understand that in addition to the ones Carcano mentioned, Heym also made a quantity of the actions that were subsequently made into rifles by various gunsmiths. The first of this type of rifle I can remember seeing was in Waffen Frankonia (later Frankonia Jagd) in 1971, also chambered for 6.5x57R. I was impressed enough with it that I have "kept an eye out" for them since.
Mike

Thank you, gentlemen, for the additional information. This rifle was made by Heym in the 1930's and originally a 7x57R and in the late 30's was rechambered and reproofed as a 7x65R. It is highly engraved like the one pictured in the Heym ad of the times.The 7x65R shot very well but is a little heavy for pleasure target shooting at the range. It has just been fitted with a barrel identical to the original but in 6.5x57R with its original fore end and Zeiss scope. While I am well supplied with jacketed bullets of various weights, I love to cast and have several appropriate molds to choose from I was wondering if I should start at the light end or the heavy end and I believe y'all have answered that. I have another Heeren by Nagel & Menz that is a beautiful little full stocked rifle in 6.5x58R Sauer.

HalfaDouble,
Do you shoot the 6.5x58R? What is its groove diameter?
Mike

Mike, yes, and the groove is .264. It likes the 120 grain Sierras and 4064. Curiously, or not, my old Powley Computer recommended the 4064.

HalfaDouble,
I wrote a pretty long reply, basically about a 6.5x58R S&S and a 6.5x48R S&S, both with .261" groove barrels. It was not "picked up", I don't know if it was "timed out", blocked, or if I did something wrong.
Mike

I am very sorry, Mike. From time to time, it has happened to me too, and it has usually extinguished any incentive to make an effort to rewrite.
PS: best German specialist for reloading the 6,5x58 R Sauer is probably Stomberger/Pille (two nicknames in different fora).

Carcano