doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com August Jung Viernau-5.6x61R vom Hofe Super Express

Raimey,
what do you mean by
"So are y'all saying just abandon the stamps on the guns & go with what everybody is using?"

There seems to be quite some variation in your velocity readings.

3400 fps is around 1040 m/s, and compared to your earlier
".... 44 grains of VV N160 w/ an 80 grain core bonded bullet by Northern Precision. Average velocity was 3125 ft/s(952.5 m/s) "
that's quite a jump for 0.4 grains more powder.

Once you see any pressure signs, pressure is way too high

Um, most posters say use 70 grains, use 70 grains, use a 70 grain bullet. But the tube is stamped, and more than likely regulated, for a 5,1 gramme bullet weight.

I will agree on the velocities & for the moment I am not sure of the variation. I am all but counting powder cylinders to get the powder weight very near the same, plus I measure it twice. Maybe the old Chrony but I always shoot a 40 kalibre pistol over the Chrony when I start & the velocity should be around 1000 ft/s.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Not sure if I mentioned it prior, but the tubeset is 62 cm in length.

Also, I do not full length resize; I pull down just enough to knock the primer out. On this next round, all the cases are in the same state w/ a couple have a few more rounds thru them.

After knocking the primer out, I check all cases by loading them in the chamber before I re-prime & start the reloading process. I guess the OAL just be a skosh shorter, but they chamber and extract with a slight amount of friction before firing. I'll make sure I clean them w/ lighter fluid(Ronson) before I fire the next lot.

On odd cases like these, I do clean the inside of the brass with a Q-Tip......

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I could drop back to the VV N 170 as I do not have any 4350 or 4831. But extraction of the brass is not any different before firing vs after. There's not any smoke / powder residue on the bushed & diskset striker / „Von vorne herausnehmbare verschraubte Schlagbolzen“. Nor are the cases smoked down the sides. When I deprime, they all feel the same.

But I will continue to work on it. The possibility does exist that VV N 160 may be a better choice than 4350 or 4831?


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
The discussion has been going on a long time and there were so many posts saying to use 70 grain bullets because that is what was available back then. My concern about using heavier bullets (or modern sleek, ones) is the possibility of them being too long for the twist rate. The concern about solid copper bullets is the same, plus the possibility of driving the pressure up. I remember you don't have a lathe, but I know someone that lathe turned .243" monolithic bullets to .228" before there were any .228 bullets commercially available and almost ruined his rifle in the process. The way you are sizing the cases is the right way to do it. If you full length size the cases, setting the shoulders back, will case separation after a few firings. The variation in velocity might be caused by variation in powder position in the cases. You might try positioning the powder the same way each time you shoot over the chronograph to see if that helps. Even though I use a filler in other cartridges, I caution against that practice with this cartridge. A slower powder might fill the case better, but I don't have any experience with VV powders. BTY, your description of the accuracy indicates the bullets you are using are not too long for the twist rate. Good luck.
Mike

The RWS data for the 5,6x61R that I posted some time back are for lighter 4,6 g (app 70 grain ) bullets and go to maximum velocity around 950 m/s.
More than 1000 m/s only with the rimless version!

Now you are well above that, with a heavier bullet and a relatively short barrel.
In my eyes this is worrying.

I thought so too with all the Black Magic that Surrounds this Cartridge. On the 1st effort, I wore safety glasses, ear plugs, gloves, FRC Clothing; if I had a Knight's Suit of Armour, I would have donned that. But there's no binding of the action; it is not any more difficult to open after firing....


Ford:

I had thought the same thing on the powder & try to keep the cartridge as vertical as possible until ignition. I'll give it a whirl again tomorrow w/ 44 grains of VV N 160. But I have hit the Evaporated Milk Can every time but one and I had a little to much tension on the set trigger w/ my finger.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

So what?

In a kipplauf gun, by the time normal signs of high pressure show themselves, the pressure is already way too high.
Mike

Loaded another round w/ 44 grains VV N 160 and kept everything vertical & the velocity was close to the last two shots yesterday. So powder was being blown out.

Reset scales, using 2 different ones(Kat Certified of course), and double-checked a load @ 40 grains VV N 160 - Velocity was a small spread and centred around 3200 ft/s.

Really need a bulkier powder that better fills the case just before a compressed load.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse