doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com August Jung Viernau-5.6x61R vom Hofe Super Express

Any rate, in reading some give the 5,6X61mm to have a velocity 1130 m/s with some type of Aluminum casing and others give say 3500 ft/s for a 77 grain bullet.

Whilst the 5,6X61R is give a velocity about 200 m/s slower @ 920 m/s, which obtainable or more realistic.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

But what puzzles me is that all but one of the examples I have viewed passed thru the Z-M Proof Facility vs the one that passed thru the Suhl Proof Facility. Some were in the final state as the one below & the initials >>GS<< are very, very common on many including tip-up versions.



This August Schueler was retailed by a Berlin Retailer Waffen Scherell and has Cats engraved on it so some say it was a High Hill Cat Gun?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

The 220 Swift and the 5.6x61R were intended for drastically different purposes (varmints vs big game) and neither one of them won the popularity contest for that purpose. The Secondary Explosion Effect Is not something that is limited to a particular caliber or a couple thousandths difference in bullet diameter. The first I heard if the "SEE" was by Jack O Connor with regard to the 270 Win. At the time, the examples were with the .270 smaller than "starting loads "of slow burning powder (in the 270's case 4831). This has been under contention since because no one seems to be able to duplicate the effect, at will, under controlled conditions; yet there are several reports of uncontrolled cases. Considering the potential costs of uncontrolled incidents, it just makes sense avoid the conditions most people think cause "SEE", unless something else is proven to cause it. It might make more sense to compare 5.6x61 with 5.6x57(big game) and 220 Swift with 22-250 (varmints), while understanding that all four can be loaded for big game or varmints. On the other hand, the choice to buy a particular rifle is more likely to depend on the availability of the rifle and components and especially the individual's particular interests than a comparison between different cartridges.
Mike

Raimey,
In your above discussion of velocity and aluminum casings, do you mean aluminum cartridge casings or aluminum gun case? I don't know of aluminum cartridges used at the time. Your rifle is chambered for 5.6x61R but the Waffen Scherell (photo above) is 5.6x61 (rimless, as it is a bolt gun), these are different cartridges. Please don't get the loading data for the two mixed up.
Mike

Raimey, COTW 4TH PG 265 gives bullet wt. 70 grn spire point in front of 44.0 grns of 4350 producing 3000 fps. cases can be made from 9.3 x74R. Details provided in Donnelly's manual of cartridge conversions. Note; similar to .22 savage high power.

Worry Not Ford as I watch my Ps & Qs. With or Without a R is the question on the vom Hofe Super Expreß

https://naboje.org/en/node/2128

Without an R
>>Lovecký náboj zavedený v Německu 1937 jako odpověď na náboj .220 Swift. Laborován speciální střelou s hlinikovou kuklou 5.0 g, Vo 1130 m/s, Eo 3200 J. Byl to úspěšný náboj pro lov lehké zvěře na velké vzdálenosti. Má malý avšak stabilní okruh ctitelů a je doposud vyráb<<

>>Laborován speciální střelou s hlinikovou kuklou 5.0 g, Vo 1130 m/s, Eo 3200 J. <<
It is this phrase - Aluminum Case - Aluminum Cap - Aluminum Hood - Aluminum Shell---- Choose your Demons.....

>>Lab Tested w/ a special bullet with an Aluminum casing - cap - hood - Shell<<????


https://naboje.org/en/node/4557#

With an R(that was 920 m/s by the way not 930 m/s)

>>Tento náboj je obdobou náboje 5,6 x 61 Super Expres vom Hofe. Byl zaveden v roce 1937. Je určen pro kulovnice s lůžkovým závěrem. Vzhledem ke konstrukci zbraní pro tento náboj je jeho výkon snížen omezením maximálního povoleného tlaku.

Střela o hmotnosti 4,60 g má počáteční rychlost 920 m/s.<<

Well, IMR -4350 sure is fetching a hefty sum these days.

Say you were to choose a powder with a similar burn rate, would you go slower or higher within a similar burn rate band for the 5,6X61R vom Hofe Super Expreß??



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Thanks Hart & that pairs well with the 920 m/s from above.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Back to the common >>GS<< initials near the forend hanger or near the proof touchmarks, I am going to hazard a guess it was Gottlieb Schlegelmilch. Although there are mechanics like Georg S. & Gustav S. that may have been active during the pre-WWII period.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Thanks to Wolfgang in locating Brass & Bullets, albeit in Germany.

https://www.grauwolf.net/wiederladen/huelsen/5,6x61r_vom_hofe.html


https://www.grauwolf.net/228-5-8-mm-77-gr-5-0-g-degol-starkmantel-hohlspitz-geschosse-50-stueck.html

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

>>Laborován speciální střelou s hlinikovou kuklou 5.0 g, Vo 1130 m/s, Eo 3200 J. <<

I have it on good authority from a mechanic that this text means:

Loaded with a Spezial Bullet w/ an Aluminum Jacket - 5,0 grammes, Velocity 1130 m/s, Energy 3200 Jules.

Now this is for the 5,6X61 vom Hofe Super Expreß without a R. Not sure how it applies to the 5,6X61R Super Expreß with a R¿¿¿

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse