doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Springer BBF - Belgian Tubes, German Proof-Weipert

Interesting Weipert BBF in 16 over 9,3X72R w/ what looks to be Rottweil load data. Tubes are from a Belgian Syndicate; Preliminary Proof in Germany, completed in Weipert w/ Bittner or Morgenstern type sidelock in 1919 @ end of the First World War.






2,5 grammes of Rottweil Pulver????


German Preliminary on Tubes by Syndicat Liégeois.

How 'bout that steel type added text in smaller font of >>scher<< bewteen >>Kruop<< & >>Stahl<<?

https://egun.de/market/item.php?id=20028433

If you can't view the images, let me know & I will post additional.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I would like to view the standing breech to see if Wenzl Morgenstern applied his monogram there? More than likely made or assembled by Wenzl Morgenstern, possibly with Norbert Schmidl as a subcontractor? Morgenstern published a catalogue with components and a page dedicated to just locks(Schloß), hammer & hammerless. Per Mr. Neuberger's Grande Artikel in DGJ Volume 13, Issue 1 - Spring 2002, Page 82 - Morgenstern had 15 master-mechanics(Meisters) who were dedicated for the most part to assembly work of components sourced from outsource mechanics. Morgenstern hung out his gunamking shingle in 1875 and made his last file-stroke in 1959, with his son Max at the helm post WWI and Grandson Herbert joined the ranks in 1932. Morgenstern had affluent clients in Czechia as well as Germany.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...s=morgenstern&Search=true#Post633252

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

F. Faukner more than likely w/ Morgenstern sourced lock
Double Gun Journal Volume 13 Issue 1 @ Page 83


Subject Springer

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, you are not going to believe this, but I have the identical gun shown in the bottom photo. Same fence carving with three beads continueing across to the fore end wood, identical engraving--unglaublisch! Mine also has the NPw proof from Wiepert. I would have sworn it was a one-off custom gun, until I saw the above photo! Mine is short 16 ga. over 8x57 JR. Does yours have a doll's head third fastener? I thought that the maker was stamped on the barrel, J. Novoty--but that might have been an arms emporium? Is mine a Springer?
Differences are slight--mine does not have any Belgian proofs, and the claw scope bases are different. The ones which had been on mine (which I changed out) were unusual in my estimation, with one of the bases seeming to be backward--in my estimation. I just could not see how to make a corresponding ring set. Mine has an oval cheekpiece, also a solid rib. Great bores, fine accuracy.
It would be better for me to post pictures, but I had to have my daughter help me the last time I put any up on this or any other site.
Do I remember finding that Wiepert was just east somewhat from Ferlach?

Take care!

Oh, I see now in the top photo--same doll's head fastener as mine! Unbelievable....

Weipert (I am using the old German name because it is used here in the context of the former gunmaking centre, that went out of existence after 1945) is a border town. The present Bohemian Vejprty is only a few hundred metres away from Saxonian Bärenstein, border running between the two.
It is the northwestern extreme corner of Czechia.

Carcano

Yeah, a pretty good 700km jaunt North from Ferlach to Vejprty.



The were under the Austro-Hungarian Empire when proof rules came out & then War pretty much decimated their mechanic ranks. They were forced to embrace mechanization and that's why you see a lot of stamped style stuff between the Wars. Next they had German Occupiers until the end of the 2nd Major Disagreement in Europe, when residents purged the German footprint by either running them out of town or neutralizing. Good bit of Ethnic Cleansing then.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

So, if my action is identical to the one above, does that make it a Morgenstern action? Where is the Springer connection? And do you have any information about a J. Novoty?

Well, 1st if you would forward any fotos to me, I will gladly post them. Then from that we can collectively add some platform specific info. Springer in an effort similar to the German firearms merchants ordering platforms from the most adept Belgian mechanics, ordered In-The-White, or finished, platforms from the capable mechanics @ Wiepert(again like 7,35 Carcano & not being language intolerant). Then they finished the longarms applying their name. You know, just not re-creating the wheel when Vejprty was making wheels. But all the proofmarks pre-WWII I have seen refer the gunmaking centre as >>Wiepert<<.

Johann Novotny of Praze/Praha sourced both Belgian & German makers for his wares. He had the room of 1000 sporting weapons from which you could choose. He was the nephew of Matthias Nowotny of Leitmeritz that migrated to Wien and then there was some love triangle, Matthias shot himself, Johann Springer acquired the business, married Matthias' wife if I have the story correct & then set up the concern to be Springer's Heirs.

I am sure there is much more to the >>Springer Connection<< if this isn't enough....

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

The name on the visible part of the shotgun tube says Novoty, no second "N"