doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com German Guns w/ Bushed & Diskset Strikers

We were discussing Austro-Hungarian Guns and it seems that few were equipped w Bushed & Diskset Strikers pre-WWII.

Anyone know when or if the Germans equipped the lower grades with Bushed & Diskset Strikers?


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

A ca 1894 Ferlach cape gun (better quality with monogram) with black powder proof does not have this feature.
But also my modest Merkel 200 Bockbüchsflinte from the 1960s is without this.

I assume, with high certanity, that the Biks / Cape gun is a hammergun?


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

The proper German term is Hahnbüchsflinte.
And being German myself, I will refuse to adopt any Austrian or Slovenian or whatever Balkanese slang !

I well understand.... Term it as you wish... Yes, proper German Term; Brits were probably the dominate force, so Cape whilst the makers were of Slovenian origin.



1939 5,6X61R vom Hofe retailed by August Jung but some say almost all were made by Christoph Funk.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Some (many?) of the pre–Great War guns had "gas dickte mutter bolzens" (sp) installed later, after the original "hound's-tooth" Schlag stuck was shown to leak gas and are not original to the gun. The Brits were the dominate force in English language literature but there was a lot of scholarly non-English work published. I've noticed Cape guns have the rifle barrels on the left side, but BFs have the rifle barrel on the right and have ruckstechers.

Mike

Fair Point there Ford and I guess I should change the theme to striker progression from >>Hound's Tooth<<(Bear Bryant style Fedora) up to 1950 Diskset Striker? A History may prove most interesting.

To sum up the language variation, the Sun did not Set on the British Empire; they established Hunting Consortiums World Wide; even had a footprint in Argentina.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Too, early on Sauer had a crossbar plate w/ a spring that I think held the strikers in place. I will have to dig a bit to find the one I have or photo.



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

Hendrik says, the Sauer side lock DF from 1892 already had this feature.

Cheers,
Wolfgang

Wolfgang:

Glad to see you are home safely. Lovely sleuthing on the Biksarica, I mean Cape; I mean Hahnbüchsflinte / Büchsflinte. Finally have it correct the 3rd time as the 3rd time is the charm.

So..... What if we exclude Sauer offerings????


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

[

J.D. Moritz retailed Kipplauf - Sauer #43xxx sourced - lifted from page 169 of Cate's Sauer Text. So it is pre1893.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
How can we tell whether it is original to the rifle or a later addition?
Mike

Well, we don't. But the preponderance of evidence suggests it is original. Sauer was including such as early as 1892. The Gun is given that it doesn't wear any proofmarks. Unless the German law is that you can alter the gun, alter the standing breech and it doesn't warrant proof, then indeed it is a later addition.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
I don't recall that Herr Steinerstauch(?) in Wuerzburg sent my Sauer BF to the proof house when changed it over after it pierced a primer. I will check it out when I go to the basement.
Mike

So Ford, let me see if I can understand this segment of the German Proof Law: I can drill a hole in the standing breech beside each striker & it doesn't warrant reproof?? Can I get an affidavit on that?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
I pulled the Sauer BF out and it didn't have any indication of having been sent back to the proof house. BTW. this is the same BF I spoke about that is chambered for 9.3x72R S&S that I used for years with 9.3x74R, shooting at least five of my Red Deer with it before figuring out it is really the S&S cartridge.
Mike

I just had a look at 2 stalking rifles one of which I knew was bushed and diskset. That one is by Greifelt & Co of Suhl and does appear to have 2 proof dates - 338 and 339. Most of the markings are standard BUG, the 7.7mm over 46, and the 338 on the bottom of the barrel stacked muzzle to breech. The 339 is a different strike right under the 338. Under that but reading left to right across the barrel is a odd outline that is sort of an open crown shape with the initials HLI or possibly ILI and under that a 1. Farther up the barrel towards the breech is a very small crown over an N and a script Nitro reading along the barrel, a symbol that looks like a large fancy script L or Z and then a BLG over 11gm. The other rifle is in 9.3x74R is also bushed and diskset and marked good ole H. Scherping and Hannover on opposite upper sides of the barrel. After that it gets a little complicated because the action is basically a copy of a Fraser with an under lever instead of a side lever and the mainspring is mounted on a dovetail under the barrel. Under the mainspring is Krupp Stahl. On alternate sides of the bottom flats are the BUG and 108/49 and on the other 3.59 GPB and St.M.G. Farther up the barrel on the bottom is a long ways serial number and a W. So, no proof dates on that one but what can be told about a date by the other marks?

HalfaDouble,
The 109/49 (109.49) on the 9.3x74R is the gauge measurement mark for the bore (not groove or bullet) diameter. This mark dates the gun to before 1912 when the 1911 improvements to the proof law were implemented and after the 1893 implementation of the 1891 proof law. The 8.15x46R seems to have been proofed in Zella Mehilis and the 338 would be the date if proof (Mar 1938) and the 338 would be the ledger number. That these two numbers are so close together is likely just a happenstance. I couls tell better If there was a photo.
Mike

Just to add an Austrian example from 1928 w/ all 3 being Bushed & Diskset Stikers /„Von vorne herausnehmbare verschraubte Schlagbolzen“ / »gas dickte mutter bolzens«(Ford's definition).




Lep Pozdrav,

Raimey
rse

Welllllllllll... I did forego opining on your interesting recollection of the term, when I smiled about it at first sight. But since your sown dragon teeth now seem to spawn in Raimey's (hopefully innocent) mind, allow me to ever so tactfully explain that

a) you might have heard "gasdichte Bolzenmuttern" and
b) the interesting orthographic rendering of thine mostly corresponds to a "farting phat MILF tart", such as to invoke Robert Crumb's drawings.

That might appeal to the imaginative fecundity of some readers' minds, but I am not sure inhowfar you might have intended that...
🙃🤪

Regards, Carcano

7,35 Carcano, you just know my little mind is totally »innocent«; lots of cents floatin' around up there.....


What we would actually say here in the South overlooking the 1st faux pas would be: „Well, I let that 1st one pass, but.......“



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Carcano,
If you go back to my quote, you may note a (sp?) after the German term you are criticizing. This acknowledges that it may not be precisely correct. This comes from being a GI going from a world of Vietnamese directly to a world of German with absolutely no schooling in either language. At least in Vietnam, as a Company Commander, I had a Vietnamese translator assigned to me; but In Germany I had only kindhearted German employees, hunting friends, gunsmith friends, and well-meaning store clerks that could see that I was at least trying to communicate in their language. My German was picked up from very different dialects, including Bavarian, Hessian, bauern (sp?), Waidmanssprache ,Steigerwalder, Spessarter, Suhler, and others unknown to me. You speak (write) English very well and have obviously been very well schooled in it, but I wonder how well you would do in my "world" trying to understand "Opelika", "Notasulga", "Muscogee", much less our Southern sayings. Although I'm a little miffed, I'm not angry; I have been criticized for mistakes before and will likely be again.
Mike

I noted it.
That is why I kindly answered the question mark. As queried.

Ask not if you want no answer.

My c.1937 Thieme & Schlegelmich "Nimrod" 16ga/8x57 drilling, all three bushed...

Very Nice & thanks for following along.....


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse