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J.D. Moritz retailed Kipplauf - Sauer #43xxx sourced - lifted from page 169 of Cate's Sauer Text. So it is pre1893.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
How can we tell whether it is original to the rifle or a later addition?
Mike

Well, we don't. But the preponderance of evidence suggests it is original. Sauer was including such as early as 1892. The Gun is given that it doesn't wear any proofmarks. Unless the German law is that you can alter the gun, alter the standing breech and it doesn't warrant proof, then indeed it is a later addition.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
I don't recall that Herr Steinerstauch(?) in Wuerzburg sent my Sauer BF to the proof house when changed it over after it pierced a primer. I will check it out when I go to the basement.
Mike

So Ford, let me see if I can understand this segment of the German Proof Law: I can drill a hole in the standing breech beside each striker & it doesn't warrant reproof?? Can I get an affidavit on that?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
I pulled the Sauer BF out and it didn't have any indication of having been sent back to the proof house. BTW. this is the same BF I spoke about that is chambered for 9.3x72R S&S that I used for years with 9.3x74R, shooting at least five of my Red Deer with it before figuring out it is really the S&S cartridge.
Mike

I just had a look at 2 stalking rifles one of which I knew was bushed and diskset. That one is by Greifelt & Co of Suhl and does appear to have 2 proof dates - 338 and 339. Most of the markings are standard BUG, the 7.7mm over 46, and the 338 on the bottom of the barrel stacked muzzle to breech. The 339 is a different strike right under the 338. Under that but reading left to right across the barrel is a odd outline that is sort of an open crown shape with the initials HLI or possibly ILI and under that a 1. Farther up the barrel towards the breech is a very small crown over an N and a script Nitro reading along the barrel, a symbol that looks like a large fancy script L or Z and then a BLG over 11gm. The other rifle is in 9.3x74R is also bushed and diskset and marked good ole H. Scherping and Hannover on opposite upper sides of the barrel. After that it gets a little complicated because the action is basically a copy of a Fraser with an under lever instead of a side lever and the mainspring is mounted on a dovetail under the barrel. Under the mainspring is Krupp Stahl. On alternate sides of the bottom flats are the BUG and 108/49 and on the other 3.59 GPB and St.M.G. Farther up the barrel on the bottom is a long ways serial number and a W. So, no proof dates on that one but what can be told about a date by the other marks?

HalfaDouble,
The 109/49 (109.49) on the 9.3x74R is the gauge measurement mark for the bore (not groove or bullet) diameter. This mark dates the gun to before 1912 when the 1911 improvements to the proof law were implemented and after the 1893 implementation of the 1891 proof law. The 8.15x46R seems to have been proofed in Zella Mehilis and the 338 would be the date if proof (Mar 1938) and the 338 would be the ledger number. That these two numbers are so close together is likely just a happenstance. I couls tell better If there was a photo.
Mike

Just to add an Austrian example from 1928 w/ all 3 being Bushed & Diskset Stikers /„Von vorne herausnehmbare verschraubte Schlagbolzen“ / »gas dickte mutter bolzens«(Ford's definition).




Lep Pozdrav,

Raimey
rse

Welllllllllll... I did forego opining on your interesting recollection of the term, when I smiled about it at first sight. But since your sown dragon teeth now seem to spawn in Raimey's (hopefully innocent) mind, allow me to ever so tactfully explain that

a) you might have heard "gasdichte Bolzenmuttern" and
b) the interesting orthographic rendering of thine mostly corresponds to a "farting phat MILF tart", such as to invoke Robert Crumb's drawings.

That might appeal to the imaginative fecundity of some readers' minds, but I am not sure inhowfar you might have intended that...
🙃🤪

Regards, Carcano