doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Rising stud on a Pin Fire Action Flat? Why?

This is reposted from the Reilly line to try to get a response. A question was asked about the action of 10456 (numbered circa December 1857). It appears to have a rising stud on the water table which interacts shallowly and at an oblique with the barrel flats. Could someone please explain what this is for? Stephen Nash I believe implied this was a Beringer characteristic.

Prevent side to side movement apparently.

Same concept as sideclips?

That was my thought as well. Nothing else would make sense.

Does it, on being pressed down by the barrel flats on closing, either assist the Jones underlever rotate back to lock the gun, or release it so that it can do so?

I don’t think so.

The lug clearly penetrates the action flats, telling us it is free to move up and down, even if it is only a bit. That size lug, in that size cut in the barrel would not resist side to side movement very well. My guess, and that is what it is, looking at only a picture, is, it keeps the gun from firing unless the opening lever is completely closed.

Best,
Ted

Why don't you take it apart, then we'll know for sure?

Mike, if I had the gun I would. It's in England at Holt's auction. Since it's a very early center-break gun, perhaps one of the earliest surviving guns around, the curiosity about its action got the best of a couple of our members and they asked whether it had a rising stud. The gun didn't sell on the 7th. Perhaps Stephan Nash or Aaron or Ken or Daryl or some other might have a gun which has a similar action.

I checked a half dozen Jones lever pinfires, and none had that stud. But I did have a couple that when closing sort of actuated the Jones lever a bit closer to the closed position. I could not see how the assist worked, but this assist would be valuable in operating the Jones lever.

The rising stud is actuated by moving the underlever and 'lifts' the barrels to start the opening motion. When closing the barrels, the depressed stud moves the underlever towards the center, bringing it within finger's reach. It is an assisted opening/closing mechanism developed by Beatus Beringer of Paris, in use on pin-fire actions from at least 1837. The stud could be centered, like on the Reilly, or slightly to one side, as in Beringer's diagram below (Journal Des Chasseurs, 1837).



The fact that there is a corresponding wear mark under the barrel shows the Reilly gun was opened and closed a great deal. By contrast, Casimir Lefaucheux used a fixed pin protruding from the barrel flats which cammed agaist the locking lug, which accomplished the same purpose.

The use of Beringer's rising stud on British pin-fires is interesting in that it shows that not all elements of Lefaucheux's action were copied. In fact, Beringer's action improvements and design choices (such as the single bite) were far more common in British pin-fires than Lefaucheux's, despite all British pin-fires being called 'Lefaucheux' at the time. Joseph Lang copied Beringer's single bite, but did not include the rising stud. Blanch, Reilly, and others, and Birmingham action makers such as Samuel Breeden and Joseph Brazier, did. While the pin-fire system of Lefaucheux, based on the cartridge, was adopted and correctly credited, Beatus Beringer had a greater impact on British designs, something which has not received the attention it deserves. Blanch bought a Beringer gun to study; what is not known if other gunmakers subsequently copied Blanch's copy, or obtained Beringer guns to dismantle on their own. I have no doubt that some Lefaucheux actions were brought in and retailed by British makers, and renamed. What I am unsure about is whether any British maker built copies of Lefaucheux's original double-bite design, I have yet to come across definitive proof.

Hugh Snowie of Inverness, with the stud removed:


Action by Brazier, on a Barnett gun:


J. Blanch:


J. Blanch, conversion from pin-fire: