doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers

I put an intemperate response above. I'll ask Dave to remove it.

Gene,

I thought it was quite amusing, although jOe may not share my views.

It reminded me of the story about the group of Fenians lying in ambush for their English landlord.

After an uncomfortable few hours crouching in the gathering darkness one was heard to observe “I do hope that nothing has happened to the poor ould gentleman?”

Gene,

I don’t imagine you ever got to see the warmth and charm that was a bilious Bob posting, back in the day. THAT GUY was the likely Supermax inhabitant.

I’d suggest you leave your post up.

Best,
Ted

Investigating whether Reilly's engraved numbering of pair guns stayed consistent over the years. The earliest pair specifically labeled "1" or "2" in the extant database is SN 21339 a #2 gun dated to 1878. However, there are no photos of the number on the web site. The first photo of a pair number #1 is my 16 ga. 27853 (1886). The first #2 gun example is SN 24956, 1883. There are numbers pictured for 35543 (#1) and 35536 (#2) both dated to 1907. From the montage below this seems to indicate that Reilly engraving of these numbers remained the same over the course of 20 years which in and of itself is a kind of marker.



It's interesting that before the late 1870's there are no extant numbered pairs. I think driven shooting became popular in UK in the 1870's which may explain this; if there were no driven shooting, there would be no need for pairs or triples. In fact, the first Reilly advertisement for pairs and threes I've found so far is January 1882 - Royal Red Book ad. (There is a lot going on in this ad and is an perfect example of the value of researching them: It also shows
-- Reilly offering off the shelf guns as previously discussed,
-- promoting pigeon guns,
-- below line of sight hammers
-- using Hurlingham weights,
-- has the first mention of Whitworth steel barrels,
-- mentioned the Reilly private shooting range,
-- and also mentions the 1881 numbering convention for Oxford Street which changed in early November 1881).



A chapter has been added to the history reflecting the above:

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


*76A 1878-1885: Reilly Builds Pairs and Triples.

In the mid to late 1870’s driven game shoots first became popular in the UK. The need for rapid re-loading and evidently competition between upper scale shooters on these game shoots apparently created a demand for pairs and trios of identical guns that could be fired and passed immediately to a reloader whilst an identical gun would be put into play. These guns would be numbered “1,” “2,” “3,” and for many makers (not all, Boss being a prominent exception) would carry consequetive serial numbers. They were meant to be identical in all respects, weight, caliber, length of barrel, LOP, drop, trigger pull etc.

The first Reilly extant gun with a number is a #2 gun with SN 21339 dated to 1878. This might have been a special ordered since there is not another extant pair-numbered gun until 1883, SN 24956 (#2). Reilly did not begin to advertise pairs and trios until January 1882. After 1884 pairs became increasingly common and continued to be so until Reilly declared bankruptcy in 1912.

An analysis of the engraving of the numbers on numbered pairs seems to show continuity over the course of 30 years from the beginning of sales until bankruptcy.

Argo you are over your private message limit. Can't message you. I've found something that you might be interested in.

There is a Reilly 8 bore, SN 21083 (1878), U-L hammer-gun for sale in England for an estimated £150 - £250. It looks to be in excellent - unrestored condition - from the photos.
https://www.lot-art.com/auction-lot...LEVER-HAMMER-S/875-e_m-15.9.25-winterton

There are several points which make this worth posting - if nothing more than a reminder: 1) Reilly did not engrave most of his big bore shotguns - they were simple, straightforward. 2) the big-bore shotguns, like his rifles had pistol grips. 3) this one appears to have an interesting Damascus pattern barrels and they are 31" which is about right for an 8 bore though they can go up to 34". For the price, it might be worth looking at:

The Guntrader.uk web site is cumbersome to use. You cannot search the database using a key word. In fact the only way to search for an obscure maker like Reilly is to use google and search "guntrader Reilly." (I mentioned this to one of their moderators a couple of years ago and got roundly insulted for the effort; I guess some are thin-skinned - wouldn't last a day on this board).

This said, the following advertisement has just been posted with a note "Image coming soon."
https://guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/reilly-e-m/side-by-side/12-gauge/hammer-250908121725007

Deactivated: E.M Reilly, SxS hammer-gun Shotgun; 12 gauge; 30" barrels, two triggers. 14 1/2" LOP, chamber 2 1/2", no ejector. Serial Number 10448.

10448 would date to late 1857. If this is a break-action Lefaucheux-type gun it could add substantially to the Reilly SN database: I've sent the following note to the seller: Hope to hear back with more details:

Sir, in reference to the Reilly SxS SN 10448: Photos have not yet been posted. However, this serial number should date to late 1857-early 1858.
1) What is the name and address on the rib?
2) Is this a break-action shotgun or a percussion gun?
3) If the former, is this a pin-fire shotgun and is it a forward facing Lefaucheaux type lever or around the tirgger-guard lever?
4). Could you please confirm the SN which should be on the tang behind the trigger guard, on the action flats (if it is center-break) and on the barrel. Many thanks. Gene Williams, McLean, Virginia

It turns out to be SN 20320, a 12 ga, SxS, T-L hammer-gun with a very long top lever - must less interesting.

Gene, you may not yet have this one on your list. It is in the upcoming Southern Counties Auction in Salisbury.

It was re-barrelled by Elderkins, a respected provincial gunmaker, in about 1970. I would guess that they would have charged about £300 in 1970 (about £6,000 in present day values).

Another gun in the sale , a best London sidelock by H. Atkin, has the paperwork to show it was re-barrelled by the makers in 1978 for £908 (now about £6,700).

Although I am a box-lock enthusiast I suspect that very few would be re-sleeved, let alone re-barrelled these days.

Thanks Para, that gun did not appear in any of the auction house libraries. That is the 729th Serial Numbered Reilly whose parameters are known, 2.2% of the postulated total Reilly made over the course of 85 years 1827-1912. We started with 125 back in 2016. This is a healthy number for a survey.

The dates on the chart have not had to be changed for some three years which seems to indicate it is now pretty accurate. More guns from 1835-1847 are needed in particular a start date for the "5000" J.C. series. These probably can be found in the collections of certain Maharajahs in India. Some friends there might be able to obtain access.