doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Refacing a frizzen

Can someone describe how this is done and what the face looks like after the process ? How does this actually affect the flint ?

Actually you are retempering/hardening the frizzen. Most have just a hardened surface and when the flint wears through the surface the quantity of spark falls off.

On some modern flint guns the frizzen was never properly tempered and they can be salvaged if the steel in them is good enough...

Sometimes poor sparking can result from dull flints, flints at the wrong angle or even soft flints. I have a knapping rod in my shooting bag.

I just had a modern Pedrosolli sxs flint shotgun that the locks were so bad that they could barely make a spark, slow hammer falls, it was just a bad shotgun. For the cost they could have used decent lock and better better barrels and made a really nice reproduction of a sxs flint shotgun. All the parts were there they just sucked.

Are you wanting to know the general process, or for the rehab of a particular lock, or make of lock?

Mike, I saw a Joseph Manton shotgun described as having a refaced frizzen. I don’t know what or how it was done in the refacing. I do have a John Manton flintlock that is fun to shoot, but I do not know much about these old guns and why and how they work .

Daryl, this is a good source for flintlock information and repair.
https://www.americanlongrifles.org/forum/

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=84765.0

Daryl
Usually, if it's described as having a refaced frizzen, someone has fitted a "sole". Most often this is done when the original face is so worn that there is insufficient material left to reshape the face correctly, and re case harden it. The sole is usually made from high carbon steel, shaped and fitted closely to the frizzen face. Then it is hardened and possibly drawn a little, then carefully sweated to the frizzen with soft solder, so as not to draw the temper above what's needed.

Thank you, all. That's a lot of good information. Now, I understand the term.

Some frizzens are made with lower carbon steel that is simply case hardened to get a good sparking surface. When this thin hardened skin wears through, the spark quality is diminished, and rehardening may help.

Refacing is done exactly as Mike describes. In one gunsmith book I read, the author recommended using a small thin old file as a source of material for the sole. He would grind it to shape very slowly with frequent quenching so as not to overheat it and draw the temper..

Metallurgists often use a simple test called spark testing to judge carbon content of a steel sample. This is done by holding the steel against a grinding wheel, and observing the color and quality of the sparks. A through hardened file made of good high carbon 1095 steel will provide a good shower of white hot branching sparks, which is what you want falling into your flash pan. A file made of a high speed tool steel will give weaker and more reddish color sparks. Many people think the spark comes from the flint. Actually, the sharp edge of the flint shaves off particles of steel and the speed and friction of the cock falling makes them white hot.

Daryl,

If a frizzen is gouged too deeply, the frizzen must be re-ground so the flint will strike about 5/8" to 3/4" above the pan. If the gouged frizzen is just re-hardened it will probably slow down the flint and slow the fire. If the frizzen is still has its original contour and it's not sparking, you have cut through the surface hardening. If that is so, the frizzen is probably made of mild steel and pack hardened. It must be pack hardened again.

If the frizzen is tool steel and must be re-hardened, you must protect the foot and pivot hole from getting too hard thus brittle. For something so seemingly simple, a flint lock is incredible complicated.

Enclosed is a link to a Muzzle Blast's article about using depleted uranium to reface frizzens. https://www.nmlra.org/news/uraniumfrizzen-bevelbros

The Muzzle Blasts article reminded me of a story told to me by a now departed friend, when I was still a young man learning this business.
John worked in the oil industry, so he enlisted the help of his maintenance guys to "improve" the performance of one of his flintlocks.
They had some magic hard surfacing rods that were used to reface the wear surfaces on certain drilling equipment.
John acquired some of these, and applied one to the face of the frizzen whilst heating it red hot with a cutting torch. What else would he use?
Apparently, the pool comprised of little chunks of carbide, or some material like that, which floated around in a pool of molten metal. Eventually, he got
them herded into some semblance of order, and when everything solidified, quenched the part.
Of course, the face needed reshaping. Several grinding wheels later, the face somewhat resembled a suitable striking surface. In other words, he got the high points knocked off.
But it didn't spark at all.
He eventually went with a new carbon steel face.
John was a good man, like so many I have met in my years in this business. I cherish the memories of the times we spent on the range.