doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Pre-shopping Italian O/U's

Good morning, all. I am thinking about buying a mid-range Italian gun as an "all around" gun for clays and occasional hunting. I don't shoot a ton due to time constraints but am looking for something to hold on to for a few more years than I previously have with other side by sides and over unders. Quality is important. My budget will likely be around 5K, once I unload a couple of guns.

I have previously owned a Beretta 686 sporting (90's model), 3 Citoris in various configurations, and a Cynergy CX (in addition to a bunch of side by sides). I like the low profile action of the 686 (and the Cynergy) compared to the taller actioned Citoris. The Cynergy broke clays well, but would have been too clunky for a field gun.

Because I do not anticipate being a high volume shooter at any point in the near future, I do not want a hardcore clays gun because I want to occasionally carry it in the field. I was thinking something that weighs no more than 7.5 pounds. I want it to have a recoil pad and 30 inch barrels. I like lower ribs. One of the guns that I looked at in my LGS was a 20 ga Guerini Summit sporting. It seemed to check all of the boxes until I read it was similar to Citori underbolt action. All of my previous guns were 12s so the action profile might be slightly less of a concern in a 20?

The Rizzini roundbody looks great, but seems like it is a dedicated field gun. I think it also does not have a recoil pad. Also, I know support for Rizzini may be spottier.

I am just curious if there are any really good non Beretta/Browning options that I am missing other than the CG Summit and the Rizzinis. Also, if you have a CG or Rizzini model and use it as an all arounder, I would love to hear about how you feel about that as well.

TIA

Zoli.

I own and shoot some B Rizzini's. A Round Body Deluxe 28 bore and a Round Body sideplate 20 bore Deluxe.They shoot very well and never had issues with them.

Lots of Beretta’s, Guerini’s, B. Rizzini’s, and Browning’s locally. Solid secondary market.

The Blaser f-16 is a well engineered gun, but never seemed to take off like the others.

For an all-rounder, the 680 series Beretta’s are a solid lighter weight choice for many.

The Italians tend to copy each other, so it comes down to available parts and service when something breaks.

If you plan to shoot 1 gun a lot, it will need servicing.

Thanks, guys. I expected stronger feelings and advocacy for various options like the Guerini and the Rizzini versus competing Browning/Beretta camps. Interesting.

Let me ask this: what new stackbarrel would you buy for 5K, if you intended to shoot mostly clay and some game with it if you walked into a well inventoried gun shop this fall?

Bluestem typed one word: ZOLI

Look at the Pernice (round body) or Expedition models. Wonderful guns. If you’re patient and start looking around, you’ll find one for under 5k. These are premier quality guns that are often over looked.

I owned a very nice Expedition model years ago. I no longer own it. Wish I still did. Built like tanks, excellent weight and balance for gauge, barrels are top quality and service and parts are available through shops like Coles.

Dustin

Whatever you narrow it down to, do yourself a favor and actually shoot some of them before buying. I shoot Italian O/Us exclusively for serious clay shooting, and doves when not using a S X S. I've shot every major brand of Italian O/U guns, and own three different brands, Perazzi, Beretta and FAIR. All the others are stocked too high for me to get them to shoot flat. Zolis, Guerinis, etc. all are fine, well made guns but all of them are stocked too high for me, as built. As someone who takes missing seriously I refuse to "float the bird" over the muzzle to compensate for a high shooting gun.

Not trying to talk you out of any brand, but just be aware that some brands tend to be stocked higher than others.

.

Look at a used Perazzi MX8, Mirage, MS80, etc and have rebuilt if necessary. It would be good to go for another 100,000 rounds. If you have to have a new one a Beretta 680 series is hard to beat. A shooting buddy has a B Rizzini and it’s a well build, durable gun.

Upland Gun Company might be worth a look. Custom built and in your price range.

“Let me ask this: what new stackbarrel would you buy for 5K, if you intended to shoot mostly clay and some game with it if you walked into a well inventoried gun shop this fall?”

My preference is rather mundane. I prefer a new 686 series (a silver pigeon something) in 20 with 30 inch barrels. They are available in a number of levels. I’ve had great success with the 680 series for the last 35 years and a BL4 before that. Good luck with whatever you get. The process of buying a new gun is great fun. Enjoy it.

I own the 687 SP II Sporting 20 ga., which has 30" barrels. It's been to Cordoba twice for high volume doves. Wonderful gun. Never a second's trouble with it in 15 years. I also used it for sub-gauge NSCA competition until I quit registered competition.

Whatever you decide, buy nice wood. You always will regret buying plain, ugly wood.
JR

The upgraded Beretta 680-series guns available from Cole’s and Joel Etchen are very nice and would certainly be good solutions. The Zoli takes it up a notch with Boss-style locking, removable trigger group, 10-year warranty on the gun, and lifetime warranty on the barrels - but their prices reflect those upgrades.

I have a B Rizzini S2000 20 ga , although it has 32" barrels it still balances well and is not too heavy. Adjustable comb, recoil pad, cased with choke tubes. I bought it new for around $5200 and would take $4500. It has had about 2 cases fired through it. I am a dedicated SxS guy but a serious Sporting instructor said I needed to at least try a O/U.

I have shot a Beretta 682 for going on 40 years, added barrels when I needed something different, added stocks when convenient. Nothing against other makes, but the 682 has been problem free for decades. I have also shot my $775 Krieghoff for about as long, but I am not going to recommend a gun that retails for $15,000.

Thanks, gentlemen. A lot of interesting suggestions here. I would note that almost no one is pushing for the Guerini, which is really interesting given how popular they seem. Multiple people have suggested the Zoli, so I will start researching those, along with the other referenced options. I may even circle back and give Beretta a second chance, even though the base model 686 I used to own didn't do much for me.

Regarding trying before buying, I would love to, but I don't have great resources for that other than renting guns at a club, which are usually 686s in my experience.

Most also aren't pushing new guns as well, which makes sense as every one I have purchased has been used due to the value proposition.

I think the 20 bore with 30 inch barrels will likely be the most versatile combination and will result in a better target weight than the standard 8 pound 12 bore clays gun. So I will focus on those.

Regarding aesthetics and wood choice, I agree that has been lacking on the lower level Citoris, the prior 686 SP, and the Cynergy. The curb appeal of the gun definitely influences how long I hold on to it and how I feel about it generally. So that will also need to be a consideration.

I have much additional homework to do!

Dan, drive down to Old Hudson Plantation Sporting Clays near Sparta, GA. Neil Bush, the owner, stocks a lot of Italian O/Us and will be glad to let you try them out there. Tell him Stan suggested it.

Neil's a great gentleman and you'll enjoy the day there.

Thanks for the suggestion, Stan. I may do that.

When I get out it is usually at Etowah Valley or Garland Mountain. I don't think either has much variety in rentals, but I haven't paid much attention in the past because I have been shooting my own guns.

Here in Blighty most now recommend an over-under in 20 bore with 30 inch barrels, firing a one ounce load for almost all game shooting. Weight is usually about 6 3/4 lbs.

Almost the same as my 1946 Webley & Scott in fact...

HB

I bought a used 28 gauge Guerini Apex. It shoots very well; but when I took the buttplate off(I need to shorten the stock) I was shocked to see the buttstock completely hollowed out and I mean really hollowed out. In one area there is very little wood to the outside. So the guns shoot well and are pretty...but?

if resale or trade value is to be considered, then there is only one brand...baretta...

"baretta". ROTFLMAO! Idiot...
JR

I'd go back to a Beretta 686 or 687, avoid the 682 (weight) and the newer high end guns. If you just want something different, look at the FAIR Rizzinis or the old Sig B. Rizzinis. If you want pretty, the Cole and Etchen guns are very nice, as are the Guerinis. There is probably something interesting among CSMC O/Us.

By way of update, I bought a Zoli:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...expedition-20-gauge.cfm?gun_id=103207133

Having had an opportunity to shoot it on clays and game, it perfectly fits the bill of what I was looking for. Thanks to everyone for the input!

Congrats on the new gun Dan.