doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com OT Catalog Descriptions

I saw a rifle recently in an online auction catalog that looked familiar. It was presented as having very good wood. Ten days or so before the auction I sent an email asking if there had been a repair to the buttstock, and they replied that there was. When I received the rifle from a dealer years ago, it arrived with the buttstock broken in two just behind the grip. I kept it and made a repair. At the first opportunity I traded it off with full disclosure. I kept checking the auction site to see if they would add a note to the catalog. No such change to the description appeared. Some buyer paid several thousand dollars for the piece. He's bound to be upset if he ever takes a close look at his purchase. Buyer beware.

Hopefully, the buyer asked the same questions that you did.

I've bought guns unseen from auction houses, and likely will again, but it has to be a screaming deal, or something I really want. Not saying the are not honest, but they do not consider a lie of omission a lie. And they describe the item to the best of there ability. Regardless of how lacking those abilities may be. In your case, then for sure should have disclosed the repair.

John

I rarely buy or bid on guns at online auctions. Mainly because the fear of hidden issues makes me leery of what I might get. I do live about 50 miles from one auction house and if I see something really interesting I will drive there and do a hands on inspection before bidding. Since their auctions are only online those living close enough have a real advantage over those who can only read the descriptions, and look at pictures.
I've discovered some pretty major errors that I sometimes reveal if I'm not interested in a gun, but I also have discovered some errors that would make some guns real bargains to anyone who looked at them, but unattractive to those just looking online. I've picked up a few items there for 1/4th of what they are worth if the descriptions were corrected.

As Vall says, it's a double-edged sword, and it is up to the buyer to look carefully at photos and ask questions to find the hidden bargains, and reject the guns that are over-priced or have undisclosed defects.

It will remain that way until someone comes up with a firearms version of CarFax.

I recently got a really good buy on a Lefever G grade double that was advertised as a 12 gauge. I suspected it might shrink during shipping, and sure enough, it turned into a 16 gauge. I'm certainly not complaining.

here's an example of one I passed on the first 3 times I viewed it. Listed as a "South American Rolling Block military rifle in .43 Spanish". I have no interest in military guns most the time, but the 4th time I went back to view it something caught my eyes. The action was flat side, and octagon top, on a military rifle? Then I noticed the buttplate was a Sporting Rifle style, and suddenly I got very curious. No scale to let me know what size it was, but hints of the octagon top, flat side action made me think it wasn't a #1, but was a super rare #1 1/2 Cadet rifle built and sold by M. Hartley & Son in New York. The company was owned by Marcellus Hartley who also owned Remington at the time, so probably the most rare Cadet Rifle version made, and not .43 Spanish, but .45-70! These rifles are about 3/4 scale to a true #1 Military rifle!
Middle rifle in their catalog page:


I've only seen two others ever show up for sale, and they were both about 20 years ago, and sold for $2k. I waited for the final minutes and tossed in my maximum bid, and got it for about 1/4th of my bid. Drove to the auction and picked it up a few days later and confirmed that it was what I thought! A true .45-70 Cadet rifle based on the #1 1/2 Sporting rear half! This to a Remington collector is like the needle in a haystack find. Something I never even looked for as they were so rare that most advanced Remington collectors don't know they ever existed.

Vall, thank you for sharing that. I’ve always wanted a rolling block, maybe someday. When I was about 10 years old, a gentleman and a gun store showed me a rolling block and how it compared to a falling block. He was very thoughtful and took the time to explain the differences to me. It kind of stuck with me. That’s an incredible find you have there!

Thanks. I own quite a few Rolling Blocks, and Hepburn rifles, but my first love is Marlin Ballard singleshot rifles.
My interest in Rolling Block rifles have always been the Sporting or target models, so this Cadet sort of crosses over between the two. I own the earliest known Rolling Block Creedmoor rifle known. It is I believe a prototype since it was made a full year before this model was offered in Remington catalogs, and is also 1500 numbers lower than those used in the 1874 Creedmoor match.

Interesting, but how could it be named a Creedmoor if it preceded the first ever Creedmoor on Creed's farm, in 1874? They have another name for it?

When a Remington Rolling Block rifle matches all the specifications of the Creedmoor rifles, but predates the catalog, or the 1874 Match, is it not a Creedmoor prototype? The match challenge was issued long before the 1874 Match, and LL Hepburn immediately went to work coming up with a design that met the Match rules. Most who know the rules also know what a rifle needed to be to match the rules. 34" barrel, 10 lb. weight limit, no set triggers, iron sights. As with the 1874 Match rifles, this rifle is in the same .44-77 BN cartridge. Also has the long-range tang sight, and heel sight base, plus windage-spirit level globe front sight.
So what else would it be except a prototype Creedmoor built before the match or before Remington cataloged the model? They sure wouldn't catalog a model and name prior to the Match, and after the Match these were simply cataloged as the No. 1 Long-Range, like all others, even if many never got shot in the famous Creedmoor Match. We still know them all as "Creeedmoor" rifles, even if they weren't in the 1874 Match. Just like guys call 1885 Winchesters "High Walls" even though Winchester never used the terminology. Not sure why you want to make it something else?