doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com August Jung Viernau-5.6x61R vom Hofe Super Express

I wonder if that article is correct in that the 5,6X61R vom Hofe was a Special Order Chambering and had to be requested, not being a typical chambering?



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

>>All the vom Hofe Super Express cartridges are overrated paper tigers. Nobody ever measured the advertized velocities when factory loads were shot from real rifles over real chronographs. Apparently old Ernst – August vom Hofe shot his loads from absurdly long barrels over a typewriter to achieve the velocities he published. Remember, this was in the 1930s when nobody outside ammo factories and proofhouses had worthwhile equipment. At the same time American wildcatters too claimed wildly exaggerated velocities for their creations.
The advertized velocity of the 5.6x61 with the 77 gr bullet was 3700 fps. Factory loads rarely exceeded 3300 fps, more than 10 % less. The top velocities within max presssure listed by German handloading books are:
RWS: 70 gr at 3470 fps ( 52 gr R904)
DEVA: 70 gr at 3543 fps (41.5 gr IMR 4831), 77 gr at 3510 fps (61 gr H870 or 53.2 gr IMR 4831)<<

Most interesting comments by Axel E. on the Rimless version??? where he points to the possibility that only upper rung ammo factories were the only ones with Chronys and maybe even dial calipers??? Not sure what shooting over a typewrite has to do w/ the price of Strawberries in China, but I might shoot over an old Laptop to see the advantages??

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Post-bellum maybe; because the DJV-Ausschuss for cartridges had, in its infamous recommendation / decree of 1956 (actually, a late effect of Albert Preuß' writing from 1900), classified the vom Hofe cartridges in the second category of "Spezialpatronen" '(first category were "Standardpatronen", third category were "auslaufende Patronen"), and e.g. DWM immediately bowed, cowered deep down with wiggling tail, and arranged its catalogues henceforth thus. Eventually, the distinction got lost however.

Ante-bellum however, I think that Christoph Funk frequently sold rifles and combination guns in the then existing vom Hofe calibers.

Carcano

Yeah, I am not sure of what exactly occurred, nor is any one else apparently. I just don't understand Funks' connection unless it is some folklore that just has been parroted from from 1937, 1934, 1937, 1934, some date in the 1930s..... A Great Deal of mysticism, skepticism, danger, intrigue, smoke & mirrors, little voodoo, etc. @ the Beginning everyone knows everything about it in a cursory manner, like chronys & dial gauges 100 years ago claims are made to have full knowledge, but in the end everyone has amnesia and knows nothing; no specifics. Typical of Folk & Folklore. So, my plan is to blow some Grits today if it doesn't rain....


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Well, there is a *whole book* by Peter Ravn Lund (plus a small website) on the Gewehrfabrik Christoph Funk, with over 176 pages; but I admit that I neither own that book, nor have read it. Maybe one of the happy possessors and bibliophiles could chime in?
https://jagdfibel.de/images/8/89/Funk-Suhl.pdf

Incidentally, the last Drilling by Funk - alas, with a rifle barrel for the thoroughly obnoxious 7x72 R - which just sold on eGun, went for a whopping 23.50 €. I didn't like the caliber, nor the stock; hence I did not bid.
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=20078644

Regards,
Carcano

7,35 Carcano:

I am well aware of the text & have read snippets. But there are some Funk ad info that point to a 1934 origin yet most hold w/ a 1937 date for the chambering. Too, I would like to see a document noting payment to Funk, a contract or work order which equates von Hofe to Funk, not just one man's verbiage in one text, not that I do not have full confidence in Lund..... One Source, One Story - One Point Source where everyone thinks all the light originantes there?????....

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

By the way this effort on this thread is garnering quite a bit of info on the topic.... But it is akin to pulling teeth or searching for„Hen's Teeth“.....

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Ah, you inquire about its mother cartridge or predecessor. The DWM numbering sequence of that one dated back to the beginning of the twentieth century. At first, it was a military prototype, then a very small number of civilian guns seems to have been produced a number of years later. I consider either as very elusive and possiby downright rare. No published modern data anywhere that I would know of.

As to the magnum primer, I do not think it is "necessary "or indispensable for that one, but it sounds like a rather good idea. The lack of a proper magnum primer plus the lack of a well suitable propellant are attributed to have doomed the rather interesting 9,3x70 (the "moose cartridge") from 1928 in practice, as you may recall.

Carcano

7,35mm Carcano:

I am most grateful for your following along & adding info.... I will probably use a Magnum Primer when I get closer to a load.

What is your opinion on using VV N140??


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I know what I know. But more important is that I should know what I don't know, free after Socrates. ;-)

In the given case [pun intended !!], a slow but not overly slow propellant (keeping in the mind the warning against the very progressive R905), such like the VV 140 might appear as suitable in principle. Might. And VV were are very popular here, more than RWS. Though Swiss RS now have gained much popularity.
However, I know of few propellants whose characteristics and parameters have been reported to have changed SO MUCH in a comparatively short time as VV 140, in a period of maybe 25 years. It was almost notorious for that in Germany, as I think to recall.

Here, this may also be of interest to you. Using HDB bullets (much better for the speed) and powder data with Hodgdon H1000. The primer is a Magnum one, too. I have not tooooo much esteem for Lüderitz, but he had apparently these data tested by the proof office, getting to 980 m/sec as V-0:
https://forum.wildundhund.de/threads/5-6x61-r-se-vom-hofe.79448/

Carcano