The opener here is next Saturday, so after mowing and other household chores were done I went for a small "toot" into the forest yesterday to see how things looked. Still very green here (it has rained steadily since my arrival last Tuesday). State budgets are clearly a bit thin up here still as I'm not seeing many of the hunter walking trails receiving much attention as of yet (last year, most of the mowing didn't get done until just before MEA weekend up here).
I have rehabilitated an older SUV that my father-in-law drove for many years up here (an '02 Isuzu Trooper) by having the automatic transmission worked on locally last summer (not a cheap fix, but far-less expensive than replacing it with another vehicle). My wife & I bought this car new in Denver and it was interesting to be driving it again after 23-years. It's full of cobwebs and grime (after sitting in his yard for several years since his demise) but it is much smaller than my older Ford pickup and very nimble (& much easier on gasoline). It's primary mission these days is boat launching (but it's also nice to have a backup 4x4 up here). Because of it's smaller size, I was able to get back into parts of the forest yesterday that are normally off-limits to me (sadly, they are now reserved for the off-roader 4x4s up here, which is a local industry) but the road gates were all open still (likely for maintenance). All of those gates will be closed by next week, so I took the opportunity to see if these roads & associated trails were worth the long walk it would take to hunt them (thankfully they were just allright).
The good news (after driving lots of lonely but beautiful miles) is that I saw several birds-of-the-year on the edge of the roads (small & incautious when compared to mature birds). Last year there were almost no younger birds (and the season was a bit thin accordingly) so this year should be more "normal" (& normal up here is usually pretty wonderful).
We've had several very colds nights here so-far (with even a light frost or two) so the bugs are almost completely gone and the Fall-colors are creeping into the canopy. It wont be long now.
Are those mowed trails on federal or state property? I hunt mostly federal national forest lands to east of you, and uh I have no trails that are mowed at all.
It is definitely green and well watered. How many grouse are out there seems to be a bit ambiguous. D n r drumming counts were down a bit, if that means anything.
The fastest way to build a book of spots is to cruise forest roads at dawn with a “clicker”. A handheld gps with a MOB button. Repeat at dusk if you want.
It seems that woodcock are migrating. The numbers on my property are increasing almost nightly. Perhaps the cool weather recently has them on the move. This does not seem like great habitat for them, and I have yet to see a single worm here. Not even after a long, 2.5'' rainstorm.
Dusty is regularly flushing a few grouse on the property, and we have seen young birds, so we hope to bag a few this weekend.
My opening day was a little longer, but less productive. I covered 18,970 steps while Dusty covered quite a few more. A nice 70 F with sun, made it plenty warm, but not unpleasant. We heard 5 grouse, laid eyes on 2 of them, and shot at none of them. But we saw some interesting things along the way.
An intriguing pile of mysterious fish bones multiple hundreds of yards from the river. There were at least three of them all next to each other. They were probably 2-3 lb fish when they were alive. But what were they and how did they all get here? I can only guess.
Lots of different kinds of mast out there right now. These are pretty tasty.
I drove to my planned site for next week's woodcock opener and found this. Not too happy with that, and I can't see what there is log up there. I will have to find my woodcock elsewhere. [img]https://i.imgur.com/eezFG5o.jpg?1[/img]
And this was a bit of a surprise, given my location. But very cool.
My reward was a bottle of Coke on the way home and a flat iron steak soaked in equal parts Lagavulin, soy sauce, and my own maple syrup, grilled to 113F, and sliced thin. Pretty good.
Looks like a pair of spruce grouse there, Lloyd. I would have taken one home. They are way under rated.
How is it you walk 18K steps and burn 936 calories and I walk 12K and only burn 164? My iPhone app is tricking me, reverse psychology to encourage me to walk further.
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
The lack of a distant shore on the horizon in that second picture has me guessing you were on LOTW. 10,000 strokes with the oars would probably count as well as 10,000 steps on your feet. 😁
How is it you walk 18K steps and burn 936 calories and I walk 12K and only burn 164? My iPhone app is tricking me, reverse psychology to encourage me to walk further.
Think about the whole story... not just the number of calories burned:
18,940 steps in 206 minutes would be impressive if it was true. That would be hunting at a pretty brisk pace if you were road hunting or doing your grouse hunting on a golf course. Navigating through brush, briars, grapevines, fallen tree limbs, rocks, uneven ground, and all the other normal obstacles you encounter in typical grouse cover... well just call me skeptical.
Even if you could do it, at that speed, I'd expect to be either flushing birds way out ahead (at a time of year when leaves haven't yet dropped), or having other birds just sit tight as I raced by. And you'd literally be begging to trip and break a gun stock, or worse.
Gotta love the internet, where any mild-mannered Nutty Professor can be Superman.
Voting for anti-gun Democrats is dumber than giving treats to a dog that shits on a Persian Rug
Brent: I had to do that once here when the duck boat motor wouldn't start (a few years ago now). It took a very-long time to get back to the dock and I simply did not find the experience to be much fun at all.
As 70 approaches, I'm finding that I need to be more "mindful" of how I exert myself (lest I become injured by my exertions [unfamiliar use of certain muscles seems to now be unwise at times]). I can still mostly do any and all of the things that I want to (& the "want-to part is much more important these days), but occasionally I'm finding that there is now a small price to be paid.
I know that a more thoughtful approach to 1st, my meals, and then 2nd...my recreational pastimes (i.e., alcohol) needs to be employed, but since I'm still having fun, that won't be happening anytime soon.
I've put-off an accounting with my dentist several times this year (for a molar that will soon become a problem), and my physician is awaiting my presence for a complete review of all my bodily functions (after the 1st of the year). During the depths of winter, I'm fine with all of their tinkering and medical inconveniences, but just not now. Autumn is now precious to me and I will not waste it for even a day or two.
Dog trial pace is 2.3 mph against all-terrain, to include going to dogs on point, or pausing in the gallery.
That is walking trials, and decades of pace recording.
As far as calories burned, the smart watches are ambitious at best. But the more data you feed them overr time, the more accurate their calculations become.
It’s pretty common for me to cover more than 100 miles on the foot in a week on the prairie. That would have three days that were heavy, and three that were lighter. Something like 13 to 24,000 steps per day.
Here is some cardio hunting from a couple weeks ago.
Tell Hugh, Carrol, and the rest of the usual suspects that I said “Hi”.
Best, Ted
Shoot up there and head over to Winnipeg. Wild play the Jets tomorrow.
_____________________________ Kaprizov turned down 128 million. Waiting to see what McDavid signs for.
Too much handgun ammunition, spent, and, otherwise, rolling around on the floor of the truck, to give thought to Canada. I could probably find and dispose of the six dead soldiers from the trip up to Lloyds (Pabst cans are red, white, and blue) but, the .357 rounds would be problematic.
Don't need to do it often, but my brother and I went out and grabbed a bite last night at one of the local "resorts". I see more rainbows up here than anywhere else (look just left of the birdhouse). Not sure why exactly but they are surprisingly fun to see (remembering something biblical I suppose?). A fitting end to the day yesterday. (RIP Charlie Kirk)
Ed, this is why this is sharptail country as well. It is my understanding that many locals prefer to chase these birds over ruffed grouse (huh?). We are on the very edge of the Great Plains here so you do have access to both of those worlds.
Back to the task at hand...and why these guns are referred to as "fishtails".
This is only an "adequate" grouse gun in that it is a bit heavy and it needs to be carried "cocked" (at least by me) in order for it to be reasonably effective. My old Brummy 16 is normally the far better option here (except for when longer shots are called-for as this one has 30-inch full-choked tubes).
I'm planning on a side-trip to North Dakota in mid-October (for prairie birds) so this is my way of "conditioning" myself for that upcoming adventure.
Don't need to do it often, but my brother and I went out and grabbed a bite last night at one of the local "resorts". I see more rainbows up here than anywhere else (look just left of the birdhouse). Not sure why exactly but they are surprisingly fun to see (remembering something biblical I suppose?). A fitting end to the day yesterday. (RIP Charlie Kirk)
Ed, this is why this is sharptail country as well. It is my understanding that many locals prefer to chase these birds over ruffed grouse (huh?). We are on the very edge of the Great Plains here so you do have access to both of those worlds.
Back to the task at hand...and why these guns are referred to as "fishtails".
This is only an "adequate" grouse gun in that it is a bit heavy and it needs to be carried "cocked" (at least by me) in order for it to be reasonably effective. My old Brummy 16 is normally the far better option here (except for when longer shots are called-for as this one has 30-inch full-choked tubes).
I'm planning on a side-trip to North Dakota in mid-October (for prairie birds) so this is my way of "conditioning" myself for that upcoming adventure.
Lloyd, I know that divide well. In that part of the country, on both sides of the border, it's literally the western edge of the forest. You walk out of the woods and the plains stretch out before you. I love it.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
Sadly, it's also rapidly becoming one of the last refuges of truly-huntable populations of Bonasa Umbellus in these United States. In the world I grew up in (NW Pennsylvania) they are extremely scarce anymore (they were quite plentiful in my youth). My brother tells me that in northern New Hampshire they aren't nearly as depleted (and I'm seeing online that northern Maine may still be in respectable shape as well).
You folks in Canada will likely be the final stand for all that (& from what I understand these birds here are the Canadian Variant, [Togata] as well). I see more hunters here with every passing year. When I first started coming up, 25-years ago now, it was very different place (very empty & no 4-wheelers).
Sadly, it's also rapidly becoming one of the last refuges of truly-huntable populations of Bonasa Umbellus in these United States. In the world I grew up in (NW Pennsylvania) they are extremely scarce anymore (they were quite plentiful in my youth). My brother tells me that in northern New Hampshire they aren't nearly as depleted (and I'm seeing online that northern Maine may still be in respectable shape as well).
You folks in Canada will likely be the final stand for all that (& from what I understand these birds here are the Canadian Variant, [Togata] as well). I see more hunters here with every passing year. When I first started coming up, 25-years ago now, it was very different place (very empty & no 4-wheelers).
Lloyd, I'm always surprised when I go to a place like Penn or Mass or upstate NY at just how much wildness there still is, because I have a rough idea of the populations in those places. I feel that way because in Canada, when you go to the wild places, there are effectively no people. Not there and not close by. In the US, with the population you have, even the wild places in the east are thick with people. If I drive 2 hrs north of where I sit and type this, I have 1000 miles to the west and 500 miles to the east of basically empty grouse habitat. It feels endless. And I expect it to feel that way for at least another 50 years.
Now, there are good years and not so good years. Great habitat and not so great habitat. But these are largely naturally occurring circumstances. Not too influenced by man's presence. Just as I need to travel to the US if my goal is to hunt quail, I think it will not be too long before American hunters will need to travel to Canada for good ruffed grouse hunting.
Last edited by canvasback; 09/24/2508:42 AM.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
50 years ago, used to hunt the top of a mountain in Putnam county, ny, about 50 miles north of the empire state building...plenty of birds there back then; grouse and pheasant...
50 years ago, used to hunt the top of a mountain in Putnam county, ny, about 50 miles north of the empire state building...plenty of birds there back then; grouse and pheasant...
but, no coyotes an no turkey varmints needer...
Coyotes go where the people are.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
50 years ago, used to hunt the top of a mountain in Putnam county, ny, about 50 miles north of the empire state building...plenty of birds there back then; grouse and pheasant...
but, no coyotes an no turkey varmints needer...
Ed, you might notice that every stronghold for grouse has a healthy populations of coyotes. And the turkeys on my property are also getting along really well with the grouse also.
Ed, you might notice that every stronghold for grouse has a healthy populations of coyotes. And the turkeys on my property are also getting along really well with the grouse also.
So, were there no grouse before coyotes were introduced, or were there always coyotes? What I don't know about grouse would fill libraries, but I do know that there have not always been coyotes everywhere. You claimed to have seen the first one to have ever set foot on the Savannah River Site (🤣🤣🤣) so you obviously know they spread into many areas in our lifetime.
Ed, you might notice that every stronghold for grouse has a healthy populations of coyotes. And the turkeys on my property are also getting along really well with the grouse also.
So, were there no grouse before coyotes were introduced, or were there always coyotes? What I don't know about grouse would fill libraries, but I do know that there have not always been coyotes everywhere. You claimed to have seen the first one to have ever set foot on the Savannah River Site (🤣🤣🤣) so you obviously know they spread into many areas in our lifetime.
Stanley, I do not know of any place where coyotes have been introduced. But in any event from the rocky mountains to the midwest coyotes have always been present. In fact, the first recorded Coyote for the Western world. It was collected by lewis and clark on their way through iowa on westward side of their trip. And so too, have grouse, although I can't tell you when the first one was collected by a european. You can look that up yourself.
My grad student and I were the first to record/report a coyote on the SRS according to Lehr Brisbain. He was the guy that would know. Doubtful that we were the first to actually see one given the number of cars driving by amd something like 23k people turning over at every shift change. And, if course they were known to be in the larger, general region.
Your ignorance does not become you, Stanley, but thanks for reading and responding to my posts while claiming to ignore me. 😁
Your ignorance does not become YOU. You know full well that my name is Stanton, not Stanley. But, in some misguided effort to besmirch me you insist on using another name.
How about answering my question instead of evading it with insults.
BTW, coyotes WERE introduced to GA in the 60s, by fox hunters who wanted another quarry for their dogs to chase.
Get with the program. I don't claim to ignore you anymore. Haven't for quite some time. I actually came to miss the laughs you provide. Like Wiley Coyote, who tries and tries but always fails..
Not a lot of people in northern Ontario. Very few coyotes either. But a hell of a lot of grouse.
What was that about every grouse stronghold has a healthy coyote population??? What horseshit!
For context, the area I am talking about is significantly bigger than Texas and twice the size of California. 740,000 people of which 500,000 are located in 6 urban areas.
Last edited by canvasback; 09/25/2509:14 AM.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
As a young boy we didn't have fire ants, armadillos, or coyotes. Then someone let fire ants off a ship. Then armadillos came from the west to eat the fire ants. Then coyotes followed the armadillos to eat them. A little humor, but now that the fire ants and armadillos are scarcer the coyotes have to eat turkey and quail eggs. I think grouse nest on the ground too and can't believe coyotes will help the grouse. "Lord help us", when the pigs finally get here. Mike
I remember the appearance of those three as you do, Mike. First, in my area of GA, the coyotes began showing up in the mid to late '70s. It was pretty certain by the GA DNR that they had been transported into GA by fox hunters. Then, I saw my first fire ant bed in '80 or '81. Then we began seeing road killed armadillos in the mid to late '80s.
I never dreamed the GA DNR would be so successful at growing the deer population that they would become such a nuisance to vehicles and row crop farmers like myself. Politics makes strange bedfellows, I once heard. Agree, because now the coyotes kill tens of thousands of fawns annually. MO did a study that showed that a female coyote kills an average of 15 fawns annually. That's a big help to me.
50 years ago, small towns and farms were what one would see in putnam county, ny...lots of grouse, cotton tails and stocked pheasants...then the turkeys showed up...and then came the coyotes and more people, living in suburban type housing...by 2000, small game was mostly gone...and so was I...refuged north to NH...sadly, found a similar situation up here....became have shotgun will travel migrant...found birds in upper mid west and far west...never ventured to Canada with shotgun...
The Nutty Professor is heavily invested in his bullshit claims about the actual effects of coyotes and other efficient predators on game bird populations.
We know that they can and do co-exist. But it is simply ignorant to refuse to see that a predator that hunts 24/7/365 can suppress or have a very deleterious effect upon ground nesting birds like ruffed grouse. I have never seen even one study that claimed small game populations increased long term after coyotes moved into an area. And we never see legions of bird hunters who are glad to see coyotes expanding their range... only a few know-it-all environmentalist wackos like the Nutty Professor or LGF. They might have some initial benefit by killing off other predators such as fox, skunks, or feral cats. But it won't be long before they are depleting game bird populations, along with rabbits, fawns, and many other species... including domestic pets.
Using the Nutty Professor's logic, farmers who raise poultry would have larger flocks if only they permitted foxes, hawks, and coyotes to infiltrate their pens and coops.
When you see a coyote, you should follow the advice of Wayne Gretzky..."You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
Voting for anti-gun Democrats is dumber than giving treats to a dog that shits on a Persian Rug
50 years ago, small towns and farms were what one would see in putnam county, ny...lots of grouse, cotton tails and stocked pheasants...then the turkeys showed up...and then came the coyotes
What do you make of that, professor? There were lots of grouse there and no coyotes.
der, one side of my mom's family were farmers located outside of dothan, al...and the other side, also farmers, were from around chipley, fl, just south of there...
remember hearing depression era stories from elders of both tribes...
including about the shortage of meat...
hoover hogs, aka armadillos, along with mostly any other mammal, became table fare...
hoover hogs an possums were captured live and kept penned and fed a diet of sweet potatoes...
in order to make erm fit fur the table...
back in the fifties, my cuzin Addison still kept ah possum or two for special occasions, like when I showed up...
he also taught me how to chew...
an udder thangs of importance...
later, in 1960, ah got kidnapped by Yankee gypsies an taken north...
landed in ah whole new world...
the Hudson river valley of New York state...
but, then that is the beginnin of ah nutter story...
The wild card for coyotes in this part of the world is wolves. Predation of coyotes by wolves is a thing, but, not totally understood.
I suspect it is only a matter of time before some meth loser who gets in over his head in the northern third of this state has a wolf encounter, likely brought on by hypothermia and not being prepared for the conditions he or she finds themselves in. The backward nature of the state of Minnesota is such that they named a hunter walking trail after the last meth head who never understood the Boy Scout motto (be prepared) in northern Minnesota, and ended up wet, cold, and alone on a night he should not have.
Hard to get through life when you die of exposure.
50 years ago, small towns and farms were what one would see in putnam county, ny...lots of grouse, cotton tails and stocked pheasants...then the turkeys showed up...and then came the coyotes
What do you make of that, professor? There were lots of grouse there and no coyotes.
I think the Nutty Professor will be in typical denial about what Ed says. He will never admit that Ed is much smarter and more observant than him.
There's a chance that there might have been a small population of coyotes in Putnam County 50 years ago, but not yet well established or a real threat to small game.
It appears that most eastern coyotes probably first appeared in Northeast Pennsylvania in the 1960's, and they migrated there from Canada and then upstate New York. It seems likely that the Eastern Coyote is a hybrid sub-species that resulted from cross-breeding with Gray Wolves in Canada. They are generally larger than western coyotes. One mangy male I shot a few years ago measured 56 inches from nose to tail. Many are larger. From northeast Penna., they gradually migrated south and west. I never saw any sign of coyotes in several Central Penna. counties while I went to Penn State, but they are certainly there now. I never saw or heard any sign of them in Northwest Penna. until the early 1990's. Prior to that, we had a pretty good population of ruffed grouse and turkeys too. Soon after I saw their tracks and began hearing them howl at night, I also began finding piles of grouse and turkey feathers and bones, along with coyote tracks. And it didn't take long until there was a very noticeable decline in numbers of birds, cottontail rabbits, and other small game animals. Cottontails are prolific breeders, and used to be seen everywhere. I ate a lot of rabbit stew when I was in school and money was tight. Now you can go weeks without even seeing one. Coyotes undoubtedly contributed to the failed efforts to re-establish ringneck pheasants, so they are very rarely seen except where they have been stocked.
There was no shortage of similar reports and complaints from other hunters. Ed's observations are accurate, and reflect those of most Pennsylvania hunters. I know some guys who enjoy hunting coyotes with hounds, but nobody else is happy to have them. Personally, I believe that grouse co-existed with wild turkeys much better than they do with coyotes, because when turkey numbers really exploded in areas where I hunt, there were still good numbers of grouse. But we know that turkeys do compete with grouse for food, and that they are nest predators that will eat game bird eggs. However, the arrival of coyotes put a hurt on turkeys too. Human population in Pennsylvania has only increased by about 1 1/2 million people since the 1960's, and most of that growth has been in urban areas. So habitat loss in rural areas is not nearly as bad as in many other states.
Voting for anti-gun Democrats is dumber than giving treats to a dog that shits on a Persian Rug
Wolves are predators of coyotes. Coyotes are predators of foxes. Before coyotes came in here we had a plethora of reds and greys. Still got lots of greys because they can climb a tree to escape a coyote, while reds cannot. Reds are all but gone because of this.
Wolves are predators of coyotes. Coyotes are predators of foxes. Before coyotes came in here we had a plethora of reds and greys. Still got lots of greys because they can climb a tree to escape a coyote, while reds cannot. Reds are all but gone because of this.
We have plenty of fox and coyotes here, just north of Minneapolis/St. Paul. I have been told they are here, but, I have never seen a gray fox. That includes the time from running a trap line a few years before and after school. I did discover that great horned owls have no pride whatsoever, and would happily land next to a skunk in a trap, walk over and kill it, dismember it, and eat most of it on the spot. A healthy red Fox in January was a $50 pelt in that era, a big ‘yote brought $75, and a skunk brought $5. Red foxes were the most successful at stealing the chicken heads I nailed to the tree above the set.
I was never too upset at the owl. Suspect my teachers weren’t, either.
We have a healthy population of reds and gray foxes around here. When you see more coyote sign, you see fewer fox.
My local farmers actually prefer to see coyotes, because they are more successful at killing woodchuck than foxes are.
Obviously woodchucks can really mess up a field of beans
Ted, RGS tells me that when they do large radio transmitter studies of adult grouse, at least half are killed by avian predators. That’s mostly in the context of Hunter impact additive or compensatory, but nevertheless, when they find a carcass after a mortality trigger, it’s about a 50-50 chance that the sign is the death came from another bird.
Ted, RGS tells me that when they do large radio transmitter studies of adult grouse, at least half are killed by avian predators. That’s mostly in the context of Hunter impact additive or compensatory, but nevertheless, when they find a carcass after a mortality trigger, it’s about a 50-50 chance that the sign is the death came from another bird.
Gordon Gullion had figured that out by 1962, without telemetry.
an clap, when them rgs types strap large radio transmitters on to birds, chances are even an ole hawk gonna ketch erm, bein dat day so heavy dat day cant fly fast no mo...one wood thank...
The transmitters these days are so tiny, they weigh fractions of an ounce.
They place them inside Woodcock, and you can watch the migration online if you want. The thing that people should be worried about is that we are entering The sixth or 10th generation of ruffed grouse that don’t seem to be responding to gigantic habitat increases across the range.
As early successional forest creatures, large scale, cutting due to economic expansion, theoretically should result in greater numbers of birds. But researchers are not seeing the evidence for that.
Additionally, Michigan has launched a voluntary online reporting app in conjunction with their forest management department in an effort to better understand this relationship. Again, there is concern that grouse are not rebounding under current forest management rules.
If anyone is hunting MI, I’d encourage reporting via the app.
Ed, I hate to sound like a shill for the forest products industry. I'm not. I'm an informed sceptic. Trees are a crop, much of which is owned by the people with more or less a sweet spot for returning value of about 50 years. Our forest management plan takes into account all the stakeholders in an attempt to get the people fair value for their forests, not wasting them as they age out, and enhance the outdoor experience for others. That'd be us. Forest products rely on a renewable resource with a long life cycle. They also Create a lot of employment in rural areas. The sustainable part is the part where you don't cut them all in one batch.
Clear cutting isn't the only treatment anymore. Sometimes the people get the best value with select cutting, and leaving big old trees to provide acorns, etc for wildlife. They'll leave drumming logs amid known shrubby fruit and food sources trying to improve grouse density as well. Checker boarding smaller cuts into 25 year and 15 year cycles creates a ton of seemingly great habitat, but the numbers aren't showing up.
So, we ask that people report their harvest to get a closer idea of the relationship between forest rotation and grouse numbers. Since my annual impact is small, I happily report.
an clap, when them rgs types strap large radio transmitters on to birds, chances are even an ole hawk gonna ketch erm, bein dat day so heavy dat day cant fly fast no mo...one wood thank...
If you meant , ''one would think'', that's your problem. You and thinking, do not go hand in hand.
There is some really awesome armchair biology in this thread. We've got a guy who knows everything about coyotes in Canada because he's Canadian and just looks out his window to instantly know everything. Meanwhile, the Canadian ministry of something or another that actually counts this stuff says thousands of coyotes are trapped every year, and in years when the Kardashians seemed to think coyotes look cute when you wear them, the number of coyotes trapped trebles. That suggests they trap alot could easily trap much more whenever they want.
Then, we have Stanish who tells us that grey foxes survived because they could climb trees that red foxes could not with coyotes being the grim reaper. This neglects much of the Western in Central part of the country. Where it's coyoyes and red foxes coexist, quite well, if not exactly harmoniously. Where do you get this garbage? Are you hanging out in bars to learn biology or maybe with Ted's meth head friends that he is always talking about?
Meanwhile, Dusty and I will head out early tomorrow morning to hunt grouse in the thick of coyotes, foxes, and even a few wolves.
Of yeah, there is an absolutely gorgeous Lewis 28 gauge, ejectors boxlock double on the counter this morning at Pulisi's. It's only demerit was a single trigger. And somebody was looking for a drilling, he has a whole bunch of them.
an clap, when them rgs types strap large radio transmitters on to birds, chances are even an ole hawk gonna ketch erm, bein dat day so heavy dat day cant fly fast no mo...one wood thank...
Are you hanging out in bars to learn biology or maybe with Ted's meth head friends that he is always talking about?
An unfortunate fact about your newly adopted state is the rampant illegal substance abuse. Not my friends, not anybody’s friends, just a blight on the fabric of society, not that you’d notice.
There’s a reason I went on that little detour about the size of northern Ontario Brent, you moron. 1000s of coyotes ARE trapped every year. 1000s more shot. But not in any kind of quantity in the bigger than Texas grouse habit I was refering to.
Look on a map Bozo. Canada is a big place.
But I’m not surprised you are geographically challenged on this topic. Most of your posts here seem to indicate you think the entire US is just like Iowa.
Sorry for the detour Lloyd. Idiots can’t be helped.
Last edited by canvasback; 09/26/2509:21 PM.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
There’s a reason I went on that little detour about the size of northern Ontario Brent, you moron. 1000s of coyotes ARE trapped every year. 1000s more shot. But not in any kind of quantity in the bigger than Texas grouse habit I was refering to.
Look on a map Bozo. Canada is a big place.
But I’m not surprised you are geographically challenged on this topic. Most of your posts here seem to indicate you think the entire US is just like Iowa.
Sorry for the detour Lloyd. Idiots can’t be helped.
Good golly.I thought ontario was smaller than rhode island. Who knew?
What else do you want to make up stories about?
Never said iowa was like the entire nation or vice versa, but the fact of the matter is it has coyotes, and we know something about them here and they tend to be just like the coyotes, a lot of other places, and we know something about those there. And that includes Canada, where it seems. You don't know so much. How about what you have?I know western ontario is right in your backyard. So regale us with some stories about it like ed, goes on about out east, or like ted, likes to tell us about meth heads in his neighborhood.
Talk to Google about punctuation and spelling. I can't be bothered
There’s a reason I went on that little detour about the size of northern Ontario Brent, you moron. 1000s of coyotes ARE trapped every year. 1000s more shot. But not in any kind of quantity in the bigger than Texas grouse habit I was refering to.
Look on a map Bozo. Canada is a big place.
But I’m not surprised you are geographically challenged on this topic. Most of your posts here seem to indicate you think the entire US is just like Iowa.
Sorry for the detour Lloyd. Idiots can’t be helped.
Good golly.I thought ontario was smaller than rhode island. Who knew?
What else do you want to make up stories about?
Never said iowa was like the entire nation or vice versa, but the fact of the matter is it has coyotes, and we know something about them here and they tend to be just like the coyotes, a lot of other places, and we know something about those there. And that includes Canada, where it seems. You don't know so much. How about what you have?I know western ontario is right in your backyard. So regale us with some stories about it like ed, goes on about out east, or like ted, likes to tell us about meth heads in his neighborhood.
Talk to Google about punctuation and spelling. I can't be bothered
Actually, a lot closer to your neighborhood. The meth head trail is near Red Lake.
There’s a reason I went on that little detour about the size of northern Ontario Brent, you moron. 1000s of coyotes ARE trapped every year. 1000s more shot. But not in any kind of quantity in the bigger than Texas grouse habit I was refering to.
Look on a map Bozo. Canada is a big place.
But I’m not surprised you are geographically challenged on this topic. Most of your posts here seem to indicate you think the entire US is just like Iowa.
Sorry for the detour Lloyd. Idiots can’t be helped.
Good golly.I thought ontario was smaller than rhode island. Who knew?
What else do you want to make up stories about?
Never said iowa was like the entire nation or vice versa, but the fact of the matter is it has coyotes, and we know something about them here and they tend to be just like the coyotes, a lot of other places, and we know something about those there. And that includes Canada, where it seems. You don't know so much. How about what you have?I know western ontario is right in your backyard. So regale us with some stories about it like ed, goes on about out east, or like ted, likes to tell us about meth heads in his neighborhood.
Talk to Google about punctuation and spelling. I can't be bothered
Actually, a lot closer to your neighborhood. The meth head trail is near Red Lake.
Best, Ted
Sounds like you've been there.It's your kind of place, eh
One person in this discussion mentioned something about additive and compensatory interactions. Y'all should listen to him and maybe check into it. Along the way, keep your eye out for a guy named Paul Errington. Y'all owe him a huge debt of gratitude. And just to keep this in this middle of the country, he was an Iowan.
When you're done with that, look up things like limiting factors and indirect effects. None of this is rocket science but at least if you knew something, then you won't sound like Stanford, who got his beer and biology at the same time and place, and at the very least, you might begin to know what you don't know.
Yes, it is my kind of place. Full of clean lakes with far, far better fishing than pretty much anywhere else, and plenty of public land to hunt.
Exactly my kind of place. I’d tell you to look into it, but, you know, stupid folks still end up dead there from time to time.
Best, Ted
_______________________________________________________________________________________________ They should stay in Iowa, and pick up all the dead birds under the windmills.
Yes, it is my kind of place. Full of clean lakes with far, far better fishing than pretty much anywhere else, and plenty of public land to hunt.
Exactly my kind of place. I’d tell you to look into it, but, you know, stupid folks still end up dead there from time to time.
Best, Ted
_______________________________________________________________________________________________ They should stay in Iowa, and pick up all the dead birds under the windmills.
Obviously some get lucky. After all you are still here.
Of course, you don't stray far from your little perch on the edge of Minneapolis, your favorite city.
I'll go bird hunting tomorrow while you sit there in your mother's basement, pounding away on your keyboard.
Enjoy the bugs, and the sweaty boots. I usually wait until after a hard frost, and prefer a bit less cabbage on the trees. The added benefit is the amateurs (looking at you) throw in the towel around then.
Club bicycle ride tomorrow afternoon. Meeting a bud for coffee on the motorcycles in the morning prior to that. Will be a perfect day for both. Not quite as one dimensional as you, but then, I’m not from Iowa.
Best, Ted
______________________________________________________ I’ll bet the measured cumulative IQ in Iowa takes a hit when you go back to visit.
Then, we have Stanish who tells us that grey foxes survived because they could climb trees that red foxes could not with coyotes being the grim reaper. This neglects much of the Western in Central part of the country. Where it's coyoyes and red foxes coexist, quite well, if not exactly harmoniously. Where do you get this garbage? Are you hanging out in bars to learn biology or maybe with Ted's meth head friends that he is always talking about?
Yes, I'm telling you exactly that. I saw this happen here when coyotes moved into this area. I don't know what goes on in the western and central parts of the country, but I do here. Your head is stuffed so full of yourself that you cannot imagine anyone that wasn't taught the same stuff you were being able to understand relationships between animal species. News flash . . . . everything that's known about wildlife interactions didn't come from classroom lectures. When I did longline predator trapping in the late 70's and early 80's I saw the rapid decline in red fox populations as the coyotes moved in.
I've seen greys way up in persimmon trees at night, balancing on a limb like a 'coon. They are more woodland and brush canines than reds, who prefer open areas with little cover. Coyotes can run down a red and kill it much easier than they can a grey, which will duck into dense cover and evade the much larger coyote.
Rather than diss everything I, and others here, say you would do better to read up a little on the interactions between these canines. There is no shortage of data proving the things i saw and know to be true . . . . HERE. How red fox and coyote can co-exist in areas of very open terrain i cannot say. After seeing what i've seen, and reading what i've subsequently read, I have doubts that they do., despite the "learned professor's" claims.
The telling thing about you is your ego. It has shown itself many times here, one notable example being the instance I cited earlier about you claiming to have seen the first coyote that set foot on the 310 sq. mile Savannah River Site. You back up on your original claim now by qualifying it with your latest attempt at regaining credence . . . . "Doubtful that we were the first to actually see one given the number of cars driving by amd something like 23k people turning over at every shift change. And, if course they were known to be in the larger, general region." Before you start ridiculing other's observations you might consider recalling that most of your work at SRS seems to have been on rodents and Bachman's Sparrows. You claimed to prefer to study smaller mammals because . . . "they're just plain cute".Yes, I do know that sparrows aren't mammals, just quoting you and your research.
"Brent J Danielson
Position Professor Emeritus The work in my lab roughly concerns the overlap of three fundamental components of any ecological system, Behavior, Interactions between species, and Spatio-temporal Environmental Structure.
The interplay between these factors determine the dynamics, longevity, and diversity of the system. In general, I prefer to focus on small mammals as they are ubiquitous, energetic, and just plain cute. Their roles in shaping the rest of any ecosystem are likely to be large but poorly understood."
There’s a reason I went on that little detour about the size of northern Ontario Brent, you moron. 1000s of coyotes ARE trapped every year. 1000s more shot. But not in any kind of quantity in the bigger than Texas grouse habit I was refering to.
Look on a map Bozo. Canada is a big place.
But I’m not surprised you are geographically challenged on this topic. Most of your posts here seem to indicate you think the entire US is just like Iowa.
Sorry for the detour Lloyd. Idiots can’t be helped.
Good golly.I thought ontario was smaller than rhode island. Who knew?
What else do you want to make up stories about?
Never said iowa was like the entire nation or vice versa, but the fact of the matter is it has coyotes, and we know something about them here and they tend to be just like the coyotes, a lot of other places, and we know something about those there. And that includes Canada, where it seems. You don't know so much. How about what you have?I know western ontario is right in your backyard. So regale us with some stories about it like ed, goes on about out east, or like ted, likes to tell us about meth heads in his neighborhood.
Talk to Google about punctuation and spelling. I can't be bothered
"Talk to google about punctuation and spelling. I can't be bothered"
You should have saved yourself time and just written that. It says it all. Including Stan's assessment of your ego.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
Then, we have Stanish who tells us that grey foxes survived because they could climb trees that red foxes could not with coyotes being the grim reaper. This neglects much of the Western in Central part of the country. Where it's coyoyes and red foxes coexist, quite well, if not exactly harmoniously. Where do you get this garbage? Are you hanging out in bars to learn biology or maybe with Ted's meth head friends that he is always talking about?
Yes, I'm telling you exactly that. I saw this happen here when coyotes moved into this area. I don't know what goes on in the western and central parts of the country, but I do here. Your head is stuffed so full of yourself that you cannot imagine anyone that wasn't taught the same stuff you were being able to understand relationships between animal species. News flash . . . . everything that's known about wildlife interactions didn't come from classroom lectures. When I did longline predator trapping in the late 70's and early 80's I saw the rapid decline in red fox populations as the coyotes moved in.
I've seen greys way up in persimmon trees at night, balancing on a limb like a 'coon. They are more woodland and brush canines than reds, who prefer open areas with little cover. Coyotes can run down a red and kill it much easier than they can a grey, which will duck into dense cover and evade the much larger coyote.
Rather than diss everything I, and others here, say you would do better to read up a little on the interactions between these canines. There is no shortage of data proving the things i saw and know to be true . . . . HERE. How red fox and coyote can co-exist in areas of very open terrain i cannot say. After seeing what i've seen, and reading what i've subsequently read, I have doubts that they do., despite the "learned professor's" claims.
The telling thing about you is your ego. It has shown itself many times here, one notable example being the instance I cited earlier about you claiming to have seen the first coyote that set foot on the 310 sq. mile Savannah River Site. You back up on your original claim now by qualifying it with your latest attempt at regaining credence . . . . "Doubtful that we were the first to actually see one given the number of cars driving by amd something like 23k people turning over at every shift change. And, if course they were known to be in the larger, general region." Before you start ridiculing other's observations you might consider recalling that most of your work at SRS seems to have been on rodents and Bachman's Sparrows. You claimed to prefer to study smaller mammals because . . . "they're just plain cute".Yes, I do know that sparrows aren't mammals, just quoting you and your research.
"Brent J Danielson
Position Professor Emeritus The work in my lab roughly concerns the overlap of three fundamental components of any ecological system, Behavior, Interactions between species, and Spatio-temporal Environmental Structure.
The interplay between these factors determine the dynamics, longevity, and diversity of the system. In general, I prefer to focus on small mammals as they are ubiquitous, energetic, and just plain cute. Their roles in shaping the rest of any ecosystem are likely to be large but poorly understood."
Ted, RGS tells me that when they do large radio transmitter studies of adult grouse, at least half are killed by avian predators. That’s mostly in the context of Hunter impact additive or compensatory, but nevertheless, when they find a carcass after a mortality trigger, it’s about a 50-50 chance that the sign is the death came from another bird.
Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
Clear cutting isn't the only treatment anymore. Sometimes the people get the best value with select cutting, and leaving big old trees to provide acorns, etc for wildlife. They'll leave drumming logs amid known shrubby fruit and food sources trying to improve grouse density as well. Checker boarding smaller cuts into 25 year and 15 year cycles creates a ton of seemingly great habitat, but the numbers aren't showing up.
ClapperZapper pretty much has provided the answer to low and declining grouse populations, but unfortunately, he isn't really recognizing or acknowledging it... much like the Nutty Professor and most of our Game Management biologists.
There are a multitude of factors that reduce grouse populations, ranging from poor nesting conditions, nest predation, disease, habitat loss, excess hunting pressure, extreme weather, and of course, highly efficient predators like hawks and coyotes.
When telemetry studies show that at least half of adult grouse are killed by avian predators, that should set off alarm bells and whistles. Add to that huge mortality the numbers killed by coyotes, foxes, cats, and other predators, and it doesn't take a genius to understand that a tipping point has been reached... in spite of grouse habitat improvements and lower overall hunter numbers.
Unfortunately, many State Game Management programs are being managed by biologists with a similar myopic mindset as the Nutty Professor. Even with the obvious clues right in front of them, they are too short-sighted to even consider that maybe it's time to go back to something that worked very well in the past. And that simple solution is reducing the number of predators. State Game agencies used to allow killing of hawks and owls, and many even paid bounties on them. They did not become extinct, but some populations of them became endangered. Now the pendulum has swung much too far the other way, but game dept. biologists, and fools like the Nutty Professor, still wish to treat them like some sacred cow that is untouchable.
We simply don't have any truly wild and self balancing ecosystems. That is a pipe dream of tree hugging environmentalist wackos. We hunters pay billions for our Fish and Game Departments to strike a balance and manage the game resources for the benefit of hunters and the general population too. All too often, they get it wrong, and the proof is in the pudding. Here in Pennsylvania, we saw such mismanagement played out when our Game Commission decided to allow harvesting of hen pheasants. When that massive impact was added to every other source of pheasant mortality, it was only a few years before our numbers of pheasants that bred clutches in the wild went to practically nothing. Then the few remaining birds were hammered by predators, and we are at a point where shooting stocked pheasants is about all that's left.
Cause and effect couldn't be more evident, but to this day, our Game Commission and their vaunted biologists refuse to admit they were wrong, and reverse that policy state wide.
And meanwhile, dummies like the Nutty Professor will continue to spout off about how many umpteen-thousand steps they accumulate on their Step Counter Apps, while shooting few if any birds. And they remain too dense to connect the dots. But you just can't fix stupid.
Voting for anti-gun Democrats is dumber than giving treats to a dog that shits on a Persian Rug
Mild to slightly warm here still. Down into the 40s at night now but still upper 60s during the sunny days.
Snow is possible here almost anytime up here, but "Indian Summer" continues to hold at this point.
Also, eating less and walking more has been doing good things for my overall health here as well. Just daily walking at home has never been all that enjoyable for me but... put a gun in my hands and promise me the potential for a bird and I'll walk all day if need be. Also, the problems of the world seem to fall-away when I'm focused on doublegun predation and not world events. I'm left with a peace of mind that I can't seem to find anywhere else (well, maybe on a good trout stream perhaps too?).
I still seem to run out of "steam" at around 10k steps still but...endurance does seem to be gaining for me. All this nice weather really helps with that.
"Also, eating less and walking more has been doing good things for my overall health here as well. Just daily walking at home has never been all that enjoyable for me but... put a gun in my hands and promise me the potential for a bird and I'll walk all day if need be. Also, the problems of the world seem to fall-away when I'm focused on doublegun predation and not world events. I'm left with a peace of mind that I can't seem to find anywhere else (well, maybe on a good trout stream perhaps too?)."
I'd post the actual images but I can't figure that out.
If I've said it once, I've said it a million times: the far-and-away #1 problem with declining grouse populations in states where there formerly were many is lack of habitat. That's followed closely by state game departments (PGC, I'm looking at you) not creating early successional habitat on their lands and turning "grouse biologist" into a chick job with all the lack of respect and funds chick jobs get (in favor of deer hunting).
Sorry for jumping the topic like that, but I thought it had to be done.
Back on the main thread: the Wee Jeff is a good match for you. You two work well together. You are truly fortunate to be able to go up north and do what you're doing. Keep up the photos....
The reports of a few widely scattered coyotes in Penn. in the 1930's have been pretty much discredited as a source of any established breeding population. That's why I didn't even bother mentioning them. It appears likely they were introduced either intentionally or accidentally, but never actually took root and spread. Even a few pairs in close proximity would be unlikely to provide a healthy and genetically diverse enough population to successfully spread. The early 1960's in northeast Penna. seems to be the most credible and likely beginning of a successful breeding population.
In the mid- 1990's, the PGC attempted stocking many thousands of Sichuan Pheasants in an attempt to establish a replacement for Ringneck Pheasants. The stocking consisted of a ratio of 2 females to one male at 45 birds per square mile. Many were sighted during those years, but nobody would suggest that experiment was the beginning of a new species in Penna. I have not heard of any sightings for many years. Sustained efforts by PGC biologists and sportsmen to protect them and get them established failed miserably, in spite of the notion that Sichauns were even better suited to our habitat than Ringnecks.
There are many reports of PGC personell releasing coyotes into remote areas of Penna. during the 1990's. Supposedly, this clandestine predator introduction was in response to complaints by farmers and the Auto Insurance companies over crop and vehicle damage. But that's another story.
Voting for anti-gun Democrats is dumber than giving treats to a dog that shits on a Persian Rug
Reds can climb onto low hanging limbs like those big live oak limbs, but a grey can climb almost as good as a 'coon. Red's problem is that they prefer open terrain where there are few such trees.
FWIW, an old time friend of mine used to run 'coons with coon dogs. He treed an otter one night. The otter had gone up on a big low hanging limb like those in the videos above. When my friend arrived on the scene the otter jumped out in the midst of the coon dogs, whipped them all, and escaped unharmed. My friend said he never saw anything fight dogs like that in his life.
Wolves are predators of coyotes. Coyotes are predators of foxes. Before coyotes came in here we had a plethora of reds and greys. Still got lots of greys because they can climb a tree to escape a coyote, while reds cannot. Reds are all but gone because of this.
I'm a little behind in reading this thread, but gotta say that I have observed the same here in central AL. We had a lot of red fox back in the 60s and 70s. I'll never forget calling one up while turkey hunting when I was 14. Took several shots to get him, but I was proud of him. The last one I saw was in the late 70s, just about the time the coyotes showed up. We still have some grays, but I don't see nearly as many tracks as the past. Coyotes are everywhere.
I hadn't made the connection on the grays being able to escape by climbing, but I suspect you are right.
CZ is always mentioning here how grouse hunters hunt their memories and I am guilty of that one today.
This walking trail didn't get mowed in time for the opener, but they finally got around to it earlier this week.
There is a child's grave marker on this one that tells a very-sad story about a little girl. I always used-to stop as I walked by it and remove my hat (as I had seen my FIL do here many years ago now) and I did so again this morning.
Why some folks get to live long lives and others die before they even get started will always be a mystery to me
Still a lovely trail, but it just got too warm on this walk (low 80s) to enjoy it any further, so I abbreviated it. Took a short break, looked this old Parker over, and headed back to the car.
I am continuing to enjoy the narrative of your posts, but sadly since Imgur pulled the plug on any service to the United Kingdom all I and others in the U.K. can now see of your no doubt lovely pictures are blue rectangles marked “Content not viewable in your region”. 😤😤
It has gotten warm here again and the bugs have returned. So-much-so that I have ceased my hunting for cooler activities (my freezer is also quite full at the moment). Fishing is the standard fall-back, but other activities are also on order here.
My resurrected SUV here was in bad need of a clean-up (my wife arrives today and will need wheels) so a team effort was required...
Time and elbow grease still work wonders, even on this long-abandoned artifact.
Last year this vehicle was sitting in the back corner of the yard, covered in spider webs, rotting leaves and bark (sitting abandoned since 2021). The wiper blades had desiccated down to nothing and the cargo door would barely open due to crusted dust and dirt in the lock mechanism and hinges. We'd saved it from a flood here 3-years ago but had done nothing else with it since then (bad transmission). Thankfully, a tree never fell on it (several came close).
It was a gamble, but a local talent was discovered and turned loose upon it and it rides again now, thanks to his good efforts. Even the cruze and AC still work(!)
My wife should be pleased to have her old car back, even if only for a short while (it is now a North Woods vehicle).
Length of day, the release of breeding hormones, and the annual dispersion of male birds. Hatching year males have no idea if it’s time to breed or not but the daylight says it’s time to set up a territory.
Yeah i've been thinking about daylength. But usually it's day length with directionality, and directionality is backwards right now. The other issue is that our day length isn't that short yet, anyway. But it must be playing some factor.
They were going at it hard while I was out there. Looking for the site of the porcupine battle yesterday.
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